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Published on:

5th Dec 2024

Harry Tanfield: How to start a cycling team

Just over a week ago, Harry Tanfield was preparing for the 2025 season like most professional riders have been doing. Any thoughts of training camps and offseason rest were cancelled however, when his team Saint Piran announced their sudden closure. Saint Piran were one of two British UCI Continental teams competing in 2024, the other, Trinity Racing, had announced the closure of it's road offering the week prior.

This left Harry, and British cycling in a dire situation. Below world tour level Ineos Grenadiers, the UK no longer had a single professional outfit. Harry joins the Odd Tandem to share his plan to build a brand new team, from the ground up on the tightest of deadlines.

We investigate the challenge in front of Harry and take stock of the domestic scene in the USA and Germany in the process. This is a must listen for anyone who's ever wondered how a cycling team is formed.

If you enjoyed this, consider joining our Patreon to enjoy ad free audio offerings - and throughout December - enter the code ODDTANDEM to get 10% off at the checkout.

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And you can watch the video version of this chat over on our Youtube channel

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Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
Speaker:

Literally been doing 12 hour days

for the last five days now.

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:

And, well, when I'm when I'm

not on the phone, I'm on my bike

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chasing these calls, texts, WhatsApp,

voice messages, the emails just.

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Oh, y'all pitching this stuff here?

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It's just been relentless.

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Hello, and welcome to another

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episode of The Odd Tandem.

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Kind of a unique guest we have today.

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And to give a little backstory,

similar to the United States,

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the road scene in the UK is struggling.

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We see many, many, many great riders

from the UK in the world tour, peloton,

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and they got there through the junior and

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under 23 pathway

teams, the continental teams.

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Our guest today, Harry Tanfield,

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was a member of one of those teams

just about a week ago,

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and he is now searching for a sponsor

in order to keep this team going.

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Jens, he's in a tight pickle right now.

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What do you think about the conversation

we just had with Harry?

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It was dramatic, fascinating,

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giving us hope,

but also be almost heartbreaking.

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And the consequences are not just there

for him

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personally, but even to within his family.

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His brother is an Olympic medallist.

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He would be out of a job for next year.

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And just to give our viewers

a quick overview,

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Tom Pidcock and Ben Turner,

they came both from Trinity Racing,

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their team closes down the road, programme

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the Saint Piran team is closing

completely.

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They just had Jack Rootkin

Gray signing with EF Education Easy Post.

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So there is serious talent coming

from these teams and all of them are gone.

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So yes it is super dramatic.

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But I loved his fighting spirit.

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So he is in there with everything he got.

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So yes, it was fantastic.

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So just to let everyone know,

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listening,

this is a very time sensitive issue.

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We recorded this about four days

before their Friday deadline.

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We're not sure if it's going to

if this is going to get out before then.

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So we're not quite sure of the outcome.

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But our fingers are crossed for Harry

and his buddies to make sure

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that the under 23 development team in

the UK

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has a new pathway into the future.

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Hello Harry

Tanfield and welcome to the odd tandem.

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Thanks, Bobby.

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Yeah. You know,

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we got a little interesting

couple of things to talk about with you.

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We understand that you're down

in Girona, Spain at the moment,

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but, for our viewers and listeners

that don't really know,

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you're not really down there

for a training camp because you have a

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pending date looming that kind of decides

your your future, don't you?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, we have until Friday,

which is like 3 or 4 days essentially

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before we go in front of

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the British Federation for a meeting

for this, continental licence

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that we're trying to get for a new team

that I'm starting off.

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So, yeah, it's kind of a little bit time

pressed at the moment.

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Would there be a chance

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British Cycling prolongs the deadline?

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And goes, you know what?

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We give you another week

because this is a desperate time.

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And what is missing?

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What support do you still need to match

the deadline on Friday?

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It's a good question.

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Yes, it's a good question.

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I would hope that they can

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maybe see, the, the

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the good things behind the project

that would that would try to establish,

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you know, and for us right now

we've, we've, we've had some really good

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engagement with, with a lot of the,

a lot of brands that are really interested

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to to join the, the project

and have pledged to, to be a part of it.

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And we've got some cash on the table,

you know, to get the budget.

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Not where we need it,

but as a starting place is really good.

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But we're yet to sign a title sponsor,

which is obviously what we need

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to get off the ground.

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And the bar is quite high

from the federation

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of what we need to,

you know, to get the licence.

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So for us,

it's pretty difficult, right now.

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Yeah, I'm hoping that

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in the coming days, with talks

that we've got going that

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we can get over the line,

but for the moment, it's,

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Yeah, for the moment,

it's still a work in progress.

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Of course,

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just to give a little bit of context

for our viewers and our listeners,

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Harry's in a unique situation here.

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He was on Team Saint Piran, and we've had,

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the old boss, Ricci, Ricci

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Pascoe on an old rendition

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of our podcast

talking about UK based racing.

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So Harry was on that team.

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The team has recently folded

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and not not too soon before that,

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Trinity

Racing road programme ceased to operate.

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So despite all the massive success in UK

cycling,

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which the Genesis was basically

when team Sky started in:

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there was a

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lot of kids from the UK

that could race bikes,

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and little by little, and

especially in the last couple of weeks,

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there are no registered

continental teams in the UK for next year.

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And Harry, who was,

you know, probably planning

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on doing a training camp or enjoying

the last couple days of his off

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season, decides to take up the torch

and try to save the team or get a team

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put together at the last minute in order

to have to be able to continue racing.

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Harry,

how did this fall on your shoulders?

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Like, was this something

that you volunteered for

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to to to keep this project going, or did

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were you just kind of elected

by your peers to, to do the hard lifting?

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Yeah.

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I mean, a little bit of context around

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like, I mean, it was all about a week.

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It was a week actually, to the day,

basically, that we found out in our team

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that that there wasn't going to be a team.

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So for us,

it was a, a big shock because at the time

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we were just with signed contracts

and we were

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everything was just the norm

that the team was continuing,

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and we knew about Trinity,

that they stopped as well and like,

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yeah, it was a big

it was a big shock for us, at the time.

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And the reason was that the Federation

wouldn't, wouldn't issue the licence.

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So that basically

if they wouldn't get the licence,

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then there was not going to be a team

as what the owners said. So,

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yeah.

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Basically with the day after that,

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we, I spoke with some of the,

the DS and a few other people

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within the team

that there was an opportunity

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that British Cycling had said, well,

you know,

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okay, we cannot issue the licence,

but if you start a new team,

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this is myself

speaking, with them, with a friend that,

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you know, there's an opportunity

that will grant a two week

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extension on the,

UCI deadline to apply to us,

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but it cannot be any way

related to Saint Piran.

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And not any sort of.

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Yeah, it's it's not in any way

related to that old team.

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It has to be ground up new team.

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So that obviously left

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very limited people

that could be involved with that as well.

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And for, for us

like, helping with my brother

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and and one of the rider’s

dads, you know, it's,

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who's quite well connected

to, to get this thing going.

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And when we had the opportunity that,

that they basically laid in front of us,

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I kind of thought, well, you know, it's

kind of that there's no option anyway,

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because the scene is there's no teams left

anyway, everywhere.

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It's full.

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It's it's December

like it's the last week of November.

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There isn't really any options out there.

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And this was a lot of Trinity guys

that are also after the same situation.

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They couldn't find a place anywhere. And,

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yeah, I thought, well,

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we try because we have no really

nothing to lose, so why not?

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And I was really surprised,

like when the whole, like,

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I put a piece out in the local,

I just went enquiring around.

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Really?

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Because of the the scale of the problem.

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But there is no team

for any U23 riders to go into.

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You know, for me, when I was at their age,

I had, like,

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I don't know, six teams,

I think continental teams.

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That's how I turned pro

originally with, with with that

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and getting the race exposure

and UCI races and stuff.

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But the tour of Yorkshire

and Tour of Britain,

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that was on at the time and yeah,

now there's nothing.

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So it's really sad that

the guys at the next generation that

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if they're good enough to

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turn pro from junior,

which some are but a lot aren't,

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all they have to do is directly skip

the UK and try and sign in a

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a team in Europe directly

with a devil team of a World tour team.

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Basically that's that's kind of an option

other than yeah, they can ride

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in the UK circuit with a UK team,

but you can only race inside the UK.

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So it's, it's

very difficult to get noticed.

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To, you know, to have an opportunity

to race abroad.

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So yeah, it's kind of

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where, where I'm coming from that we,

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you know, it's also trying to it's

not just like the riders of the old team,

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it's really the young riders

in the, in the, in the UK

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that are really going to suffer

from this going forward.

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And it would be nice if.

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Yeah, the Federation would help me out

a little bit with a bit more time to.

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Yeah, try and get this thing over the line

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basically.

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So for really for our listeners

and viewers, it situation right now

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is that Team

Ineos Grenadiers is the only registered

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registered

professional team in the entire UK.

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So you got

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basically juniors at Nothing

and Team Ineos.

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Yeah, yeah.

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So you would think that Team Ineos

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would be interested

to have something underneath them, right.

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To have their rights to develop

and I mean for their budget.

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We're not talking £5 million here.

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I mean it's a for Ineos,

a relatively small number.

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Is there a chance that Ineos

might just help to start a team.

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Yeah.

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Is there a chance

the British federation goes you know what,

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if we give you like a credit for whatever

1% interest rate next year,

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we give you credit for the money

you need or

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I know that's wild,

but if you go, hey, listen, Team Ineos,

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if every of your British riders gives us

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0.5% of the salary, that would save

our year is their chance for that.

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That's that's a good way of putting it

yeah.

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You know, I never

I never thought of it that way.

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But the problem is well

also trying to speak

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to anyone quite high up in

Ineos is it's quite difficult.

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I don't know

really who I contact directly,

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but it's maybe worth a, an approach to BC

But like,

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Ineos already just partnered

with a German continental team,

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so that's kind of

I know, that's why I go for them.

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It's okay. What's that?

But how do you feel about that?

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That's a whole different story,

isn't there?

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Yeah, it's pretty.

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Yeah. It's pretty pretty sad to see.

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And I know former pros from the UK

that now, you know, 50 and 60s

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that actually put a lot of effort

into junior teams in the UK.

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There is some really strong, really good

junior teams that

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the Hope team, and Fensham

Howes, the Beeston team?

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There's, there's quite a few teams

in the UK that really give

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the juniors

really good exposure of racing in Europe.

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And now like,

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I think that the owners are just kind of

with the head in their hands because.

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Yeah. Where are you going to go.

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You go from junior

like unless you can directly jump

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to the pro level,

or jump in a devil team in Europe,

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if you come out of the junior team, there,

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there's there's no way for them to go to.

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Which before there was

many continental teams with Trinity,

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you know, the teams in the UK that it was

there was a pathway

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like juniors can aspire

to get somewhere to then keep progressing.

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But now there's just this huge gap,

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like a huge hole there that needs filling.

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That's what

we're trying to do. Basically.

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But you don't go from

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where UK cycling was

or I'm going to say it, USA

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cycling is in exactly the same situation,

but it's been a couple years

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that we've been dealing

with this kind of quagmire,

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but you don't go from,

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you know, a team that's winning

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the tour de France.

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So many fans on this side of the road

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when the tour de France goes there to this

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without some reason, without some signs,

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was this at all,

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was there any indication

that a could get this bad, or was it

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just that slow bleeding until finally,

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you know, it was it was done?

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Yeah.

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I think it has just really been

that slow bleeding.

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The Covid didn't help.

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But yeah, realistically, it has just been

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that it's been a negative spiral,

a bit of a doom loop, really.

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I would kind of describe it

of underinvestment in the

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the racing coverage

on the racing program in the UK,

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which is then led to a lack of interest

through team support and engagement,

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I believe personally, but,

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I think things are trying to change

and there is people involved now.

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There's just been a big commission, a road

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review done by British Cycling,

with Ed Clancy going over

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and basically reviewing the whole scene

of what can be changed and what can.

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And they made some really,

really interesting recommendations.

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But ultimately it's only recommendations.

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And, I don't know, maybe

one of the 20 points is being addressed.

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So there is like work to do.

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And there's yeah some, some

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other people that are just interested

do started new pages.

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I don't know if you guys probably don't

see the monument HQ page that

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a friend of mine set up,

and he now has like 70

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or 80,000 followers

on the on the Instagram and YouTube pages.

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And he only covers domestic racing in

the UK and he's like, just did it himself.

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He's not affiliated to the federation

or anything like that.

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And now he set up a pay.

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You pay £30 for a year for a subscription

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to then be able to watch the races

that he's able to then fund

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to have the races

live streamed a little bit

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like the criterium

and some of the road races.

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So it's people like independent people

like that that are coming on board to try

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and rejuvenate the racing in the country,

which is really nice, but it will.

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Yeah,

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it would be nice if they were supported

a bit more through through the Federation

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because it's just a bit,

it's a bit sad that it's just been left

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to kind of decline in that way,

which is obviously.

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Yeah, on paper maybe it looks different

on the side with this.

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There's more one kilometre cycle

circuits everywhere, but it's not really

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it's not proper racing.

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It's just all cycle parks

that kids ride around.

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And you can maybe do a weekend,

a Night-Time criterium there and stuff.

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But it doesn't.

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It doesn't help riders that go pro

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when when you mention a

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differential now a few times

and to support, you hope for

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it's not only the juniors

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that are affected by that, it's

also within your own family.

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Your brother is

is a world champion, right?

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And actually he won a silver medal

in team pursuit,

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where is he going to race

next year? Right.

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So the entire British winning gold medals,

you know we take over the world.

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World class performance plan, whatever.

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Back in the days that's all falling apart

because do you expect your brother

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to work in a bike shop until 4 p.m., then

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train and win another world championship?

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Yeah.

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So the federation must be coming up

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with some plan

to also save the track program, right?

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Yeah.

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I mean, they they pay, they pay, like

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they don't get paid from the Federation

to get paid

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a little bit

from the National Lottery money.

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But that's another topic of concern

that like

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they don't get paid a lot

and it hasn't changed in ten years.

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And like inflation is kind of eating

that kind of pay to get by.

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That's why a lot of those guys

also rely on the road contracts as well.

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And for some of them, like Ethan Hayter

and Ethan Vernon and some of those guys

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that ride, you know, full pro tour,

they don't they don't get that,

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that like

allowance thing the lottery funded.

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It's only for guys

that really need it to help them

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still be able to train and perform

at that level.

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But it's getting harder and harder,

especially then.

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Yeah, with no teams in the UK

for those guys to ride out this, there's

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just there's just no options.

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Like you do have to get a small part

time job or side hustle thing on the go.

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Really,

if you haven't got that world to it

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or pro to a contract as well to kind of

keep you

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ticking over, which is, yeah, it's

going to be detrimental to performance.

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And it's also like

people don't want to do that anymore.

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They do want to just go pro on the road

and try and try and get to the world tour

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if they can.

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But if they don't get there,

then they are left with nothing.

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There isn't really an option to come back.

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There's nothing there for them

to fall back on as well, which is

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a pretty big problem to.

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Yeah, so

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I'm just having a hard time understanding

with so many

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young riders in the UK in the World

tour peloton, right.

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They had to get there someway and

and now that

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pathway seems to be closed.

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For the young riders,

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if the situation stays the way it is now,

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will there be any racing calendar?

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I mean, will

there be any teams to take start of,

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you know, take the start in,

in the criterium that you've mentioned

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or the famous time trials

that we hear about that

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you guys do in the UK,

or is it just kind of like that?

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That's it guys, that's you know,

you got to go and find another job.

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Yeah.

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It's it is pretty hard

just to, to put it all into perspective.

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Yeah.

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There will be like

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short teams and elite teams in the UK

that,

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that kind of support

the National Road series.

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They just race in the UK

and do that kind of stuff.

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So although entry numbers

have been kind of

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going down a little bit,

in the men's side the last few years,

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but some races still get pretty

well supported.

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I think that the lower level

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racing below

that is kind of suffering a bit as well.

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Yeah.

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Just because also, if you take away that,

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next step,

if you're already riding for a good club

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or good shop team that you aspire to

to get in the continental team,

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and for everyone that sees it

from the outside, like that's that's the

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:

that's where I've seen

as professional in the UK because, yeah,

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you could dream of joining

any other sport, you know, the next layer,

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the next step above is that is that that's

progression that people want to make,

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:

especially when they're young and,

you know, 18, 19 from junior

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:

to come and to try to get into a team

like that is really important. And,

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:

yeah, it's kind of just like a bit of

a kick in the teeth, really, for training,

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you know, through the jury is so hard

and getting good results and things.

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And then there's

nothing really to aspire to

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in not you

can you can complete the UK and then.

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Yeah. What do you do. It's

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it doesn't make it easier with Brexit but

Yeah, that's what the whole thing of us

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try to make a team so we can get to Europe

and get that exposure

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outside of the UK,

as well as racing in the UK,

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because we want to support the,

the, the UK racing.

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But yeah, it's to get the lots

like exposure in Europe.

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:

So yeah, the committee join

all the development

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teams all to,

to to try and go into a project.

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And for, for the deadline on Friday.

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What exactly do you need

like five more team cost

374

:

50 more riders or five mechanics whatever.

375

:

200 bikes.

376

:

Well what's the paperwork?

377

:

What's the hardware

you need? Or just purely.

378

:

I need a budget, budget, budget budget.

379

:

Yeah. It's budget.

380

:

Yeah. We've got enough riders.

381

:

I've got a lot of DMs, to, to go through,

382

:

yeah, there's there's a lot of,

there's a lot of riders, that's for sure.

383

:

There's more riders than,

if you had a pound for rider,

384

:

it'd be quite good for the budget,

I think. But,

385

:

Yeah, I really it's just the cash

for the sponsorship with the Federation.

386

:

They, you know, they want to see

a balanced budget, obviously.

387

:

And, we have to assume kind of worst case

is because we don't have so much time.

388

:

We're struggling.

389

:

So we have to focus our energy

on getting the title sponsorship

390

:

because that's the big money

that we need to make the team happen.

391

:

But equally,

392

:

without focusing on the smaller

sponsorships,

393

:

the bikes and the clothing

and other things like that

394

:

that eats into the budget,

which would maybe already

395

:

be serviced by the other sponsorships,

if that makes sense.

396

:

So like the more time you can spend

investing on the smaller things too,

397

:

the more money you save

for the overall budget, which then means

398

:

you can reduce the total,

which is a lot better.

399

:

It's a smaller target to hit.

400

:

But we've had some really good talks

with some right,

401

:

really iconic brands in the UK,

and they're fully behind the project

402

:

and what I'm trying to do.

403

:

So we get to put pen to paper,

but there's, there's commitments there.

404

:

And the issue is it's not going to get us

that, yeah.

405

:

It's not going to get us that UCI licence

that we need the budget for.

406

:

That's the that's the concern.

407

:

Yeah.

408

:

So hopefully we can get a extension

I hope.

409

:

But so so let's cut to the chase here.

410

:

How much money do you need

411

:

to get the the license and to at least

412

:

have a chance of getting on the start line

once the races start in January?

413

:

Like what?

414

:

What do you need?

415

:

What is your budget?

416

:

What is that magic number?

417

:

I mean, in our portfolio

that we've put together

418

:

in budget plan, including contingency

and kind of worst case

419

:

where we're shooting for it's about 350 K.

420

:

That's pounds.

421

:

As a worst case

422

:

kind of 250.

423

:

But yeah, it's, it's pretty big numbers.

424

:

Not big by European continental teams

and maybe not big by any numbers.

425

:

But for a lot of businesses

it's, it's quite big.

426

:

But we are talking

to some pretty big ones as well.

427

:

So when they can have the sole exclusive

UK team.

428

:

Okay.

429

:

Other than Ineos, and

430

:

you know how

how good the project project is for rider

431

:

development in the UK

and the positive media around it?

432

:

I believe it's a really it's

a really strong

433

:

it's really strong message

that any, any partners

434

:

do send out if they come on board

with the project like this.

435

:

And how big is your team

436

:

to talk to sponsor,

to take phone calls, to send emails out?

437

:

Is it just or you or you are entire family

or ten of your friends?

438

:

Yeah.

439

:

How many people you have to take

the phone calls and talk to these?

440

:

Yeah, it's very difficult.

441

:

It's.

442

:

Yeah.

443

:

Just to fathers

to two dads of riders that I work with.

444

:

But they also work full time jobs,

you know.

445

:

So in between nights, pretty difficult.

446

:

And another friend that's helped

contract work and before for teams

447

:

and he's, he's he's pretty well

448

:

connected in the cycling

industry business world.

449

:

I've been just trying to help

try to get in touch with the few

450

:

kind of agents that are well connected

and people that I dealt with in the past,

451

:

to try and kind

of open some doors for me to,

452

:

to corporate leads, really,

453

:

yeah, into that kind of environment

and just,

454

:

but also like a lot of support

has really come through,

455

:

the articles that I've done with,

with Cycling Weekly

456

:

and of British Continental Cycling News,

just putting out that.

457

:

I like the situation.

458

:

I mean, people know

that teams are going to stop, but actually

459

:

to make an article like that

about actually what this means for the UK,

460

:

I don't think

people put two and two together.

461

:

They just kind of see all this team

462

:

stop being on this team stopping

and then they don't really.

463

:

Yeah, connect the dots

and see the gaping hole that's there

464

:

for for rider development in the UK,

which is it's really sad to see,

465

:

but the posts and the articles

are call all traction.

466

:

And they reached like over

100,000-150,000 people

467

:

I think like on on views

and things like that and engagements,

468

:

which is really, really good.

469

:

So I had a lot of interest

470

:

from firms and people

wanting to be involved with the team.

471

:

Yeah.

And just following things like that.

472

:

It's been really it's been really time

consuming for me.

473

:

I'm just like,

I have been trying to train a bit,

474

:

but I'm just yeah,

I want to go bad after this.

475

:

I've just literally been doing

12 hour days for the last five days now.

476

:

And,

477

:

well, when

478

:

I'm, when I'm not on the phone,

I'm on my bike.

479

:

And then when I'm not on that,

I'm eating dinner.

480

:

But then I've not particularly

being very much the last few days because

481

:

just constantly just

482

:

yeah,

chasing leads, calls, texts, WhatsApp

483

:

voice messages,

the emails, just all pitching for stuff.

484

:

Yeah. It's just been relentless.

485

:

And I think I'd suffer from burnout

if I got a derivative the week.

486

:

So let's hope we can get something.

487

:

So it's very quick.

488

:

You know, I'm just starting to think

489

:

with the success,

the massive success of the British

490

:

cycling program on the track

and then with the Bradley Wiggins,

491

:

the Mark Cavendish is, you know,

all the fantastic pros, the Chris

492

:

Froome's that, you know,

officially has a British passport.

493

:

Did you do

you think that actually that success

494

:

kind of was just,

I guess assumed that that would continue?

495

:

And then it just all of a sudden,

496

:

little by little, like you said, over

the last two years, just kind of fell out.

497

:

Do you think the the people in the UK

kind of got spoilt

498

:

and now they're going to be in a situation

like, wait a second.

499

:

You know what happened here.

500

:

Yeah, I guess it's

it's like an underinvestment thing.

501

:

I mean we're kind of picking the fruit

now from,

502

:

you know, the trees that were planted

I guess ten years ago.

503

:

But the issue is that

there's no more trees getting planted

504

:

now, and, there's going to be a problem

down the line, you know?

505

:

And I guess people just don't think

long term with that.

506

:

They just think that naturally things

will just improve somehow on their own.

507

:

But, yeah, I

508

:

that's, that's like

509

:

kind of a pathway thing

for maybe BC to kind of look up.

510

:

And it doesn't take a genius to work out

if there's no UK

511

:

proteins in the UK,

then I work in the juniors go to that.

512

:

When they go to go to U23,

we've got a road scene for them in the UK

513

:

that's five races a year and a few crits,

but they ain't gonna turn them pro

514

:

unless the, you know, winning

by five minutes or something like that,

515

:

you know, I mean there's still national

championships, which is obviously a great,

516

:

place to show a show

how good you are in those kind of races.

517

:

But I think the also just doing a European

race programme

518

:

can really bring riders on,

especially at a young age.

519

:

I mean, you know, being there myself and

520

:

you learn

521

:

to ride in the crosswinds in Belgium

and experience the pro camps and,

522

:

yeah, you fall in the coast here in West

Flanders, it's a bit different

523

:

to riding the,

524

:

120 K,

525

:

kind of circuit lap or the UK.

526

:

You don't need to learn about peloton

positioning skills or going to the car

527

:

or anything like that.

528

:

It's just it's

just a completely different, different,

529

:

style of racing that we have here

because it's not it's not UCI racing.

530

:

It's just national national racing.

531

:

Pretty much other than the two of Britain.

532

:

But you need it.

533

:

You need a licence

to do the Tour of Britain Hence

534

:

always trying to get this like scrape by,

even when the bare minimum

535

:

just to get a licence means that we can do

the tour brand, which is fantastic.

536

:

But yeah, I guess we have to.

537

:

I have to see with all so when

538

:

there's not enough teams, we still hope

your team gets going.

539

:

But there's one team.

540

:

There would be at least

two more needed right?

541

:

If younger riders decide to try

542

:

to get a licence

or start in the French or Belgium team.

543

:

Now after Brexit,

you're not part of a European Union.

544

:

Do you have to apply for a work visa

545

:

to actually be able

to live and work in France?

546

:

Do you have any insights on that?

547

:

How complicated is that?

548

:

It's very complicated for young rider

to get a proper official work license.

549

:

Yeah, it's very complicated. Yes.

550

:

I mean, I know myself

because my girlfriend is Dutch

551

:

and I spend a lot of time in Europe,

so it's very difficult.

552

:

The sudden when you're young as well.

553

:

And if you're just going to ride

554

:

for a team, it's really difficult

to get the to get the visas.

555

:

Every country has their own policy

with that.

556

:

And like for

if you wanted to join the team in,

557

:

Holland, for the Netherlands for example,

it's super difficult to get a visa there

558

:

without actually earning

a, you know, quite a sizeable income,

559

:

but not very few riders

that are 19 or 18 will ever turn.

560

:

I believe that there's,

561

:

a French talent visa

that's possibly possible

562

:

for young riders that they could maybe get

if they had some sort of sponsorship.

563

:

And the team's able to kind of

564

:

sort that out for them.

565

:

But other than that, in Europe,

it's it's basically not possible.

566

:

Like you have

567

:

a three month on, three month off

kind of it's a bit like from the States,

568

:

like when you guys come from this region

for the States, probably the guess from,

569

:

if you from the States to Europe, then

I think you probably have the same visa

570

:

as we have for Europe,

which is 90 days inside of 180.

571

:

And it's like a rolling average.

572

:

So it's not like

573

:

if you just leave for one day and

come back here, you get another 90 days.

574

:

It's, it's

a, it's a tracked rolling average.

575

:

So you have to watch the

you can't spend more than 50% of your time

576

:

in that 180 day period,

out of your home country.

577

:

So if you try and go abroad

for one season, you can't do it,

578

:

which then means that you have to fly to

and from the country,

579

:

which makes it even more prohibitive,

580

:

because if the

cost with doing that as well.

581

:

So yeah,

I guess we kind of been doubly screwed

582

:

in the UK by the race scene

and then Brexit as well.

583

:

So yeah, that's why everyone's trying

to get rid of the passport if they can,

584

:

and try the first thing any cyclists

will try and do when they get to like 18

585

:

or under 23 is just to try and get rid

of the British passport.

586

:

And I've tried,

but I can't because I went back 500 years

587

:

and everyone is kind of from around 100km

588

:

from where my house is, so I'm fucked.

589

:

Geez.

590

:

I mean, you know, it was different for,

for for I, Harry, even for you.

591

:

I mean, you had a developmental pathway,

right?

592

:

Like you were a junior.

593

:

And then when you transitioned

in, we didn't have under 23’s back then,

594

:

but you kind of had time to develop

595

:

in, in the,

the pro teams that, that we were on.

596

:

I look at it as the riders

597

:

coming out of the juniors,

if they're winning races by five minutes,

598

:

like you said, they're going to get

everybody's eye right.

599

:

They're going to have everybody's

attention and they're going to jump ship.

600

:

So with with so many of these teams

601

:

over the years, these developmental teams

taking investing time,

602

:

investing money,

investing resources in young riders,

603

:

and then as soon as they get

a couple good results,

604

:

they they don't sign for that

605

:

affiliated, world tour team or pro team.

606

:

They sign for whoever's

going to give them the most money.

607

:

Yeah.

608

:

So that leaves those developmental teams,

especially the guys,

609

:

you know, the general managers saying,

why should we even do this?

610

:

You know, back then,

if you signed for developmental team

611

:

to that that is sponsored

by a pro pro team or a world Tour team.

612

:

It was kind of like assumed that you

that was the feed system, right?

613

:

But now everybody's

skipping all over the place because

614

:

everyone has an agent and everyone's

looking for that big payout right away.

615

:

Do you think the team owners

and the people that actually invest

616

:

in the riders development get frustrated

617

:

because here they are building a program,

618

:

and then all of a sudden, hey,

619

:

my contract isn't that very, very big.

620

:

I'm just going to buy out of it.

621

:

I'm going to sign for 10x that over at,

622

:

some other team do are

are the riders to blame here a little bit?

623

:

I don't think arise is to blame.

624

:

But I guess now with the times

the riders are signing younger

625

:

and younger agents picking up riders

younger as well.

626

:

I mean, even from ten years ago, I was.

627

:

That was ridiculous.

628

:

This are from junior into directly.

629

:

It's a pro like that.

630

:

But I guess it's happening.

631

:

I don't know why they can't put a clause

with when they join the rival teams that,

632

:

you know, okay, you get first offers

633

:

from the team, but I suppose there's

no like, restriction.

634

:

You can't just say

you can only sign for us.

635

:

Unless they maybe put that in the terms.

636

:

But I don't believe that.

637

:

I don't believe that they do.

638

:

But it is pretty bad

the other way that that happens.

639

:

I thought that there was a system in place

that if a rider left

640

:

a continental team and signed pro,

that the continental team would receive

641

:

a payment of like, I don't know, €3,000.

642

:

It literally peanuts bought something.

643

:

I thought there was something like that

in place, but I'm not not 100% certain.

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

That's it. I'd have to check that.

646

:

I don't know.

647

:

What do you do have that?

648

:

I don't know how much it is, but yes.

649

:

Do you have that earlier

this year went to the UCI

650

:

to give us a like the whole story.

651

:

What do you do, what are you planning to

do. And dimension that. So it's.

652

:

Yeah but in soccer

it is much more developed.

653

:

Yeah.

654

:

It it lasts sometimes up to ten years

that the rider or the next team

655

:

has to pay the junior team. Yeah.

656

:

For about ten years time.

657

:

Like it really helps. Yeah.

658

:

It makes a massive difference

to smaller teams because like the teams

659

:

for that much effort,

an investment into that rider, you know.

660

:

And then just to see them just cleared off

and going pro and then a team with a 30,

661

:

30, €40 million budget going,

yeah that's two grand.

662

:

Thanks for everything.

663

:

And yeah, see you later.

664

:

It is a bit ridiculous

when you think about it.

665

:

I don't know why it's not.

666

:

Yeah.

667

:

It needs reviewing urgently, but also

then I suppose with the development teams,

668

:

if they turn pro and then go

to a different development team,

669

:

the development team is funded

from the world to a team anyway.

670

:

So it doesn't

671

:

it doesn't really make

that big a difference

672

:

because it comes from a massive budget

anyway.

673

:

But certainly for the

for the continental teams that,

674

:

see the teams from world to like for them,

it makes a big difference.

675

:

There could really change because like

676

:

in the future, in ten years, like

who knows what this is going to look like.

677

:

The racing is continental

even going to still be around properly,

678

:

or is it just going to be driven for you,

the teams.

679

:

But obviously you can only have,

680

:

don't know, a maximum of

681

:

25, devo teams because there's only

so many pro teams anyway.

682

:

So you need more teams to race.

683

:

But it's kind of just like it just seems

like that's the way that it's going,

684

:

because it's how hard is for smaller

continental teams to survive.

685

:

And it attracts the

the investment that they need to

686

:

to develop the riders and to do

a, you know, a decent race program really.

687

:

Which is a bit sad.

688

:

So now that we touch some of these,

topics,

689

:

again, fingers crossed

your team takes off.

690

:

What will you see

in your first speech to your team?

691

:

And also a double question,

will you be a rider

692

:

or will you be the general manager?

Yeah. New team.

693

:

And what will you see in your very first

speech to these young riders?

694

:

I think

I mean, for sure I'd like to still

695

:

I'd like to stories as my role as team

captain in the team, you know,

696

:

we've come a long way

and to share my experience.

697

:

And, you know,

I have a few of the people in mind.

698

:

I'd like to join me in that.

699

:

First, it needs to be

a good mix of experience and youth.

700

:

It can't just be solely U23 guys,

701

:

but also needs to be some experience there

to help to guide those kind of riders.

702

:

But hopefully those guys

can also progress in a year or two.

703

:

Like we don't just want to be a one

stop team for one year

704

:

and then just to fall away

like the other ones.

705

:

We want to have a long term plan,

which we need a bit more time

706

:

for the sponsorship,

obviously to secure that future,

707

:

but to really build a reputation

as a sustainable team,

708

:

and with the brands behind us

that we've been talking to,

709

:

I think that we can really make

that happen.

710

:

It's just a case of,

yeah, obviously getting a license

711

:

in the first place, but we have time

once we've got that sorted.

712

:

But yeah, for the guys there

713

:

to, to to speak to them from the start,

I don't know what

714

:

I think it's probably just

I think everyone will also be relieved

715

:

that they've, that they can still race.

716

:

You know, for that it's

717

:

they will be really thankful

if we can get this thing going.

718

:

And for everyone,

it would be super motivated and,

719

:

so appreciative of the opportunity

that we've got to race

720

:

and if it means that we've got to do

things a little bit on the chief and,

721

:

in terms of races just to get by

and do a strong race programme,

722

:

that's what matters.

723

:

But we all have fun

and we create the content

724

:

that we need to create to,

to give the value back to our partners

725

:

that are going to be involved

with the project.

726

:

Because, yeah, without that, we have to

tell the story of how we came about.

727

:

And also, yeah, how are we going to race?

728

:

And and our journey through that.

729

:

But Harry, let me pause for a second.

730

:

You just turned 30.

731

:

As of a week and a half ago,

you were a bike racer.

732

:

Yeah.

733

:

And now it sounds like you're

taking on this role of a general manager.

734

:

I mean, you're drinking through the fire

hose, my friend.

735

:

You're kind of like, you know,

736

:

head under the water to say,

say the least.

737

:

So we may be having the worldwide

738

:

exclusive interview with you, Harry.

739

:

Because maybe ten years from now, you're

going to have a team like Ineos, right?

740

:

So what would you want that team

741

:

to look like, assuming you get off

the ground, assuming you get started

742

:

and assuming that this isn't

just A11 year thing, what is your vision

743

:

or dream scenario of what this project,

744

:

as meagre as it looks right now,

745

:

looks like even 5 or 10 years from now?

746

:

Yeah.

747

:

I mean, to be honest, I've not really

thought past open, so I like

748

:

yeah, I've

749

:

literally not had time

for the last couple of days,

750

:

but I have given it some thought

in the last 2 or 3 days because it kind of

751

:

just morphed its way along from being,

yeah, we need your time.

752

:

Like get a team together because there's

no there's no team in the UK.

753

:

So let's try and do something

then actually, like speaking to sponsors

754

:

and seeing their engagement

and then, you know,

755

:

looking

and discussing our plans for the future

756

:

and actually for us to, to to sit down,

you know, mere close friends to say

757

:

like, you know, we don't just want this

to be a one year thing.

758

:

Obviously, we want sponsors to join us now

and partners to come on board,

759

:

but we want to keep this going

because if we stop next year,

760

:

it's the same situation.

761

:

So for us just to keep growing

and I think it's better

762

:

that we can start on a lower level

and really hit hard in the year

763

:

after with a bit more investment from

764

:

from outside, because we need to prove

that we are a brand new.

765

:

You know, it's always hard

when you're a brand new project.

766

:

You're built on untested and untried.

767

:

To get out there and to race.

768

:

And I think that that will do the talking

and hopefully, we'll introduce

769

:

some further partners to come on board,

you know, to, to get a little bit bigger

770

:

in the year to where, you know,

maybe we can have a few more riders

771

:

and also maybe go to some races

further afield.

772

:

Love to do some racing in Canada and,

and do some races in the US as well.

773

:

But for us like that's the budget

constraints really.

774

:

For what it comes down to, for being able

to provide a race calendar, which,

775

:

you know, maybe we try

and focus on actually doing some U23

776

:

races as well, which in the future

that will be really important.

777

:

But right now we can't have two race

programs kind of running at the same time.

778

:

The budget that we've got going,

it's really just just to run

779

:

a single race program,

that everyone can kind of compete on.

780

:

And,

but that's certainly a direction that,

781

:

that I think we should head with it

because without that, like,

782

:

you know, that's our mission

is still obviously to try and get a place

783

:

for U23 guys

to, to progress and to to move on and

784

:

they need to do those kind of races too.

785

:

So, yeah, for me riding right

now, obviously I can't, but yeah,

786

:

going going forward though,

I think that it's,

787

:

there's a lot of fun to be had,

but we just have to take it step by step

788

:

and hopefully we even attract the partners

we've been speaking to.

789

:

Hopefully, you know,

they're in this for the long run as well.

790

:

But yeah, obviously we've got to

we've got to get off the ground for

791

:

so I don't want to turn a run before

I can walk, you know.

792

:

Yeah, I've got this deadline on Friday,

and right now we're we're a bit short, so

793

:

you never know. Break

beyond this, open for some money.

794

:

And, on the way to

795

:

to create a team,

is there any chance you could then give

796

:

your potential sponsors to promise

off, like, certain media coverage?

797

:

You know, I mean, if I could.

798

:

Hey, I know a friend at BBC,

and they're gonna show

799

:

whatever every week, like ten minutes

about our project since like,

800

:

that is their chance.

801

:

Because I know TV attract sponsors.

802

:

Time is super, super important, isn't it?

803

:

Yeah, yeah.

804

:

And it's really important

like in the UK that we have obviously

805

:

we have the tour of Britain and that race

is live from start to finish on TV.

806

:

And for us to engage with,

807

:

you know, with the fans around that

and to do interviews and things like that

808

:

and to be the front of that race to really

we like all UK teams normally,

809

:

you know, we really race that race

aggressively because we need to get on TV

810

:

and get the names out there

and stuff like that.

811

:

But to actually, yeah, engage

with the with the TV audience that way.

812

:

It's a shame that in the UK

we're actually the UK is losing its rights

813

:

I believe to the Tour

de France I think from:

814

:

Did the free TV. Yes.

815

:

ITV is losing it. Yeah.

816

:

But yeah going forward they have

817

:

Warner Brothers

discovery obviously is pretty big and

818

:

they're really growing a lot in the UK.

819

:

So it'd be super interesting if, Yeah.

820

:

If they were interested

in joining on board with us I don't know.

821

:

But it is really important for,

for the coverage.

822

:

And we have budgeted

already for a videographer and,

823

:

we might only have one mechanic, but

we need to try and have a content team.

824

:

Not a content team,

but just one person who can do

825

:

some interesting content

and photos and videos and to

826

:

to tell the story of the race,

which is really important.

827

:

So, for us that that's what we can share

with our partners.

828

:

And, we're kind of flexible

that we just want to be able to,

829

:

to race in environments where, you know,

it suits their needs as well.

830

:

So, we're kind of open to interpretation

with that.

831

:

But yeah, obviously

racing in the UK, in Europe is

832

:

there's a lot of different

options for us to, to go up.

833

:

Here's

how you maybe could, could try to sell it.

834

:

You go.

835

:

If we get started

to your potential sponsor,

836

:

we will be guaranteed invited to off to

to tour Great Britain.

837

:

And now you can get a smart person

to county will count

838

:

how many times our name will be mentioned.

839

:

How many minutes of TV.

840

:

Our logo will be live on national TV.

841

:

And then you can ask them, can you imagine

you have to buy that TV time?

842

:

You would spend £10 million buying an hour

of TV time, we can guarantee you that.

843

:

Yeah, basically for £350,000,

that would be a selling point.

844

:

Me yeah. No, no, no, it definitely ends.

845

:

Yeah.

846

:

I know a little portfolio

that we've got, we, we have gone

847

:

over the whole general viewing of the UK

national series and the Tour of Britain.

848

:

The tour brand is very impressive.

849

:

Obviously compared to the, the,

The National series

850

:

is live streaming with YouTube

and on a, on a different channel.

851

:

Sometimes it's on, it used to be on

Discovery Channel as well.

852

:

And they used to have a bit on GCN, but

then obviously now it's gone to discovery.

853

:

It's they still do some highlights,

but it's huge.

854

:

Like the numbers is

the numbers is really big.

855

:

I think it's over 150 million impressions.

856

:

For for yeah, the tour of Britain

857

:

in total across the whole race and across

seven days, it's very long.

858

:

It's live from.

859

:

Yeah, it's live for four hours every day.

860

:

It pretty much is absolutely huge.

861

:

But yeah,

I do have some of the numbers behind that.

862

:

Not to hand,

863

:

but I do have a little document

which just got so they mention which is

864

:

you got to be really, really important

going forward with especially

865

:

to UK companies because they want

to get the name out in the UK.

866

:

So that's.

Yeah, for them it's super important.

867

:

Which is great to drop in.

868

:

So yeah, hopefully that can be our

I was selling, you know

869

:

not a selling point

but to get it over the line, you know,

870

:

I think it could be the a deal breaker

pretty much that race.

871

:

Well, I had the word content

because you've said

872

:

the word content a few times

when I was growing up.

873

:

You race your bike

and that's all that mattered.

874

:

But we've learned through the gravel

scene, through the criterium scene

875

:

over here in the US, that riders don't

only have to worry about the results,

876

:

but they have to produce content on

on social media channels.

877

:

I'm curious of, you know, you as a 30 year

878

:

old rider and aspiring general manager,

879

:

what is other than what

you just mentioned about the TV stuff?

880

:

What other content outlets

881

:

or content, do do young riders

882

:

actually have to provide

or at least think about having to provide?

883

:

Because for me, it's a stressor thinking

about creating social media contact.

884

:

So I'm curious

885

:

what else besides getting on TV

that you young kids have to think about?

886

:

Yeah, like it is something that's changed

a lot, especially in recent years.

887

:

And it shouldn't

take away from performance.

888

:

I don't believe, and I see it

from both sides because I've also been,

889

:

in cycling before that kind of.

890

:

But that time and also

now where it's super important.

891

:

So I've seen both, both sides of it,

you know, and

892

:

I think it's just super important

that we make it easy for the riders.

893

:

You know, we

we provide photos, videos and,

894

:

things like that just to provide

to the riders to create their own content

895

:

where they don't have to go

looking elsewhere or, you know, just,

896

:

for example, just at the end of the race

to always have a folder or a line

897

:

you know, within a couple of hours

of the race with, with a lot of nice

898

:

little pictures there with,

but then you obviously

899

:

have to employ a photographer

or a videographer to do that.

900

:

And I think that you

can create your own little

901

:

small

reels and little summaries of the race

902

:

and how it's gone, and you really capture

the team in their moments,

903

:

you know, during that day particularly,

it does take quite a bit of work.

904

:

I really like

I really like seeing the drone

905

:

shots, like cut in there,

and I don't know what the

906

:

I want to put it

in the budget for a drone, but

907

:

I told you, if

I told you if you're allowed to do it.

908

:

But I've seen it in Europe and in Asia

quite a lot of using drones.

909

:

They don't use helicopters,

they just use drones in races.

910

:

I mean, we'll save a lot of money

to do that.

911

:

But also it's got to be a

really good drone to be able to handle it.

912

:

Yeah.

913

:

Like to create content using that,

a mixture of, you know, having,

914

:

having that and,

and also content by the roadside.

915

:

It's I think the value is in the people,

you know, that,

916

:

you have involved with the team

and when everyone's passionate about the,

917

:

the project and you work with great brands

that really get the message

918

:

of the project,

like to help inspire the riders,

919

:

and it really just keeps people engaged

with it the whole time.

920

:

And also, yeah,

you provide that back to them,

921

:

which

then they can put out on their socials

922

:

and create, you provide the base material

for them to create content themselves

923

:

around, around the event so they could put

a different perspective on it as well

924

:

if they want to.

925

:

It's just

926

:

it's just really important these days

obviously with yeah, especially with ROI.

927

:

And it means that a race that you did

a week ago, you can still be talking

928

:

about in the week afterwards,

which is super important as well.

929

:

It's not just, yeah,

we did the race, it's now a building.

930

:

You know, it's

everything that went into the race.

931

:

And also reviewing on the after. So,

932

:

yeah, I think it's I think it's

a very important element that we,

933

:

we focussed a bit on that as well.

934

:

Harry, I want to or us

935

:

we want to thank you a million times

for giving us your precious time,

936

:

because your time literally

is worth gold, right?

937

:

You probably got

another 20 phone calls to take.

938

:

Once we get off the recording,

I go with you.

939

:

So thanks again for being our guest

and share this interesting

940

:

and dramatic story was us,

and we keep all fingers crossed for us

941

:

that everything come to an end on Friday.

942

:

Thank you.

943

:

Well, that's everything for this week.

944

:

Now please

remember to follow us at Odd Tandem

945

:

on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook

and wherever you get your podcast.

946

:

Thanks to Harry for joining this podcast.

947

:

Also remember,

if you want to see the video version

948

:

of this podcast,

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

949

:

YouTube youtube.com/@Oddtandem.

950

:

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast

951

:

and your name in the titles,

just head to our Patreon

952

:

where you can sign up for $5 a month

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953

:

That's patreon.com/attend him

954

:

thanks to our Patreon members Steven

955

:

Kimbrough, Marie Teixeira, Jeff Kralik,

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956

:

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957

:

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958

:

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959

:

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960

:

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961

:

and Olivia Beattie

who have done just that.

962

:

Please keep sharing the podcast

and keep leaving your reviews

963

:

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964

:

It really helps us to build our audience.

965

:

And remember, if you want your question

in our next mailbag episode,

966

:

make sure you keep sending us

your questions too.

967

:

OddTandem@Shockedgiraffe.com

968

:

or any of our odd

tandem social media channels.

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.