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Published on:

21st Aug 2024

Mailbag #3: Gifting stages, crazy fan interactions and the best language to swear in

Bobby and Jens are joined by Producer Mark as we dive into the mailbag and answer your questions. This week we discuss if gifting a stage, or even a race is a good idea, the best and worst roadside encounters with fans, unpicking the complex international languages of the peloton and find out why Remco Evenepoel is so dominant!

Send us your questions for the next mailbag oddtandem@shockedgiraffe.com

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Transcript
Speaker:

Okay, so

we're back with another mailbag episode.

2

:

this is one where, unfortunately,

you got me as well as the two lovely guys.

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:

we're going to start with some questions

that you've sent in.

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:

Remember, if you want to send a message

to the podcast, it's, @Oddtandem

5

:

anywhere on social media

or Oddtandem@Shockedgiraffe.com

6

:

to get them in the mailbag

and so when you send us an email

7

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to the address is Tim Fariss He asks.

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It seems like breathe, right.

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Nasal strips are being used

more frequently again in time trials.

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Is there a proven advantage

to using a brief write strip?

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Is the allowed?

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This is the idea that it allows

more oxygen intake.

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And if there is an advantage,

why don't all riders use them?

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I'll take this one.

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This is kind of a funny story.

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In my first grand

tour was the:

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They were handing these out like at the

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at the sign in, and I'm just like,

I'm going to start using one of those.

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And then I saw Tony Rominger using it,

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and I just had it on the whole entire

Vuelta that year.

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And then I stopped using it in

most of the road races,

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but it was part of my protocol for time

trials.

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is it proven?

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I never did any testing

to actually prove it,

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but it was more of that mental,

what would you call it?

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Maybe even a placebo.

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That okay, I'm going to be able

to breathe a little bit better.

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so yeah, I wish I could say that

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there was something absolutely proven,

but I think it's just up to the riders.

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I mean, Jensie

you and I have, pretty big schnozzes

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and anything that'll help us

get a little bit more air in there.

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could never hurt right?

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Correct.

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I never use them too often.

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Or almost never, ever.

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But people, if you look at pictures of me,

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there's hardly ever a picture of me

breathing through my nose.

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I always have to paint face

and my mouth open

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like that to get enough air into my mouth.

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So I was just basically breathing.

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Breathing through my mouth.

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I never needed, any nose extra pieces,

but that is just me and myself.

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Yeah, you had a just a big old scoop

open there.

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You should have been thinking

about how many.

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What you were losing with your

with your trapper.

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It is wide open, sucking down air.

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I mean, this is one of the few things

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where I've actually got

some kind of link to this.

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I, you know,

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I just swimming and I was a I played

like what you'd call a soccer quite a lot.

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And I remember the 90s when I was growing

up, they were a really big thing.

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And I broke my nose 6 or 7 times,

and I found that

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all it did was just blocked one

half of my nose when I used it.

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So it was the opposite for me.

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But hey, if it works, it works, right?

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Seven times.

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yeah.

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Were you bit of a brawler

up there in the UK or what?

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I'm just really clumsy.

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I like run into a basketball post

once, so.

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Yeah,

like there's a whole load of stories.

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okay, here's a

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question from,

Vern from Charlotte, North Carolina.

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So not far from you. Bobby.

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good afternoon, gentleman,

40 year old longtime cyclist here.

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I used to do the Hincapie spring training

series many years ago, back in the day.

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I have a weird question for you gentlemen.

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We all know that racers

have to stop mid-race for a nature break,

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but have you ever witnessed a fan on the

side of the road having a nature break?

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There never seems to be porta potties,

so I can only assume it happens.

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I actually did see dead quite a few times.

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also, I saw people,

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smoking cigarettes

and smoking the other stuff as well

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because don't forget a mountain like Alps,

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it's super famous and they close it

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at least one day, often two days

before for cars going up and down,

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because there's really

all these camping cars

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parked on each little square

inch of the road side.

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So they go, look,

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we stop at two days before,

if you want to go up, you have to walk.

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So people start walking at 9 a.m.

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by the time we come in at 5 p.m.

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for the grand finale, they have been

out there in the burning sun for like six,

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seven, eight hours doing nothing else

but like in case there are males standing.

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there with free upper bodies.

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They are fully sunburned,

fully drunk, fully stoned.

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So yeah, of course I have seen them

doing all sorts of businesses.

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I have to say I've never witnessed that.

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I mean, I'm sure it happens,

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but it kind of reminds or makes me

think about the Olympics this year.

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You know, the final, the final circuit.

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I mean, you know, these guys are drinking

all this carbohydrate.

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They're trying to stay as hydrated

as possible.

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I feel so sorry for those guys.

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If they had to take a leak in that final,

you know, 70 K or whatever it was,

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you know, those final three circuits.

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Well, I mean, Nils Politt he stopped

in a cafe and got caught on camera.

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So, you know, like

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I mean, there is a way around it,

but it's not normally that civilized.

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But, you know,

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we have those green zones where you can

just dump all your trash nowadays.

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I wonder if they have a circuit

like that again in the Olympics

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or the World Championships,

if they're going to have a little pee

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pee zone or something, you know,

where guys can just kind of pull in

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to a little porta John

and and then get back out on the road.

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But no, I, I've never witnessed

that to, to these extent.

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I mean, yeah, sure.

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There's a lot of drunk,

fans on the side of the road.

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One caused a crash

in the tour of Spain yesterday.

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I believe it's it's a it's actually a

miracle that it doesn't happen more often.

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And I think the most famous one

was with Giuseppe Guarini going up out

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to was and and the little photographer

kid stuck, you know,

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got out in the middle of the road

and he wound up just T-boned in him.

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And luckily, luckily,

luckily he went on to win the stage

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and, you know,

had no ill feelings toward this kid.

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But could you imagine if that happened?

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And then he got passed

right at the end by,

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you know, wound up second or third place?

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That would have been terrible. So,

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you know,

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stick to the nature break, you know,

keep that off to the side behind a tree

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and then give the riders a little bit

more room on the road to, to do their job.

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I was just going to ask on on that the,

the crowds.

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When you're going up a mountain,

does it matter

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which group you are in the road

as to how rowdy they are?

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Because obviously if you're at the front

that, you know,

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that's two people have come to see,

you know, more often than not.

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But we see these videos of the people

at the back doing wheelies and stuff.

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Does it get more raucous at the front

or at the back?

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I would say cycling fans on general,

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where like, there's no violence,

there's no hatred in between them.

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The shared experience

you shared, a love for cycling.

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And,

as far as I'm concerned, the really fair.

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So it doesn't matter if in tour de France,

if you're French and American

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or German rider they cheer you on

if you're going for the win.

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Yes, they might be a little more excited

because you're the first rider DC,

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but they also give you a lot of cheering

if you're positioned 50 or 170.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I have, two friends, Eric and Carrie,

who actually went over to the tour

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and got all dressed up

and was part of that

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caravan of people on the side,

you know, camped out for a couple days.

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You know, he had like a wrestler mask on.

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And he was a very, buff

kind of tattooed guy.

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So he had like a tiny Speedo

and they filmed that.

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And I was like, man, that's a party up

there.

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And I would like to go and experience

that one day.

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You know, I'm, I know I'm getting older.

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I'm not going to have the little,

Boris outfit on or showing my buttocks,

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running alongside the group, but

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I would say they're extremely supportive

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and almost frantic for the lead riders.

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And then they're very,

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very supportive in a different way

to the riders that are further back.

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You know, they're handing them food,

they're giving them pushes up the road.

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it's a it's a pretty cool atmosphere.

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But there is nothing like being in that

front.

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And I wasn't in the front very often.

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But going through

that tiny corridor of road,

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you couldn't even hear yourself think.

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You know,

we didn't have race radios back then,

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but if somebody was saying

something over the race radio, you would

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never have even been able to hear it

because it's that loud and you get done

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or you get out of that

that zone where there's so many people

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or into the barriers

and your ears are ringing

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and it feels it's

a really weird, sensation.

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I think maybe we need an old tandem trip

to a race to to experience it.

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there's a message here from,

Merida Feria.

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Who says, this is the best description

of the race I've ever heard.

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This year in the tour de France.

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Hommes Sans Zwift.

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so the male version.

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a big talking point was the gravel stage

And there's been one in the Vuelta

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as well.

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the main thing I've heard, pros say,

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is that they hated to ride it,

but would have loved to watch it,

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or they loved watching it,

but glad they weren't riding.

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I want to hear Bobby and Jens's

biggest gaps.

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in terms of the kind of race

they'd hate racing themselves,

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but absolutely love

watching for entertainment reasons.

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Oh, for me, that's simple.

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Anything with cobblestones,

anything with cobblestones.

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I mean, Paris-Roubaix,

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there would have to be an

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absolute, like nuclear war

for me to miss that on TV.

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Like that is, I plan out that entire day.

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I get my snacks, I get my beers,

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and I am just in it from kilometer zero

if possible.

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but would

I want to ride those cobblestones?

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No, because, you know,

we had Sylvain Dillier on recently

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and he was talking about the

the blisters that he had on his hands.

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And you hear, you know, the horror stories

about what these riders

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have to deal with after, you know, doing

Roubaix, either the men or the female.

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So as much as I love watching it,

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no, I think, I made the right decision

staying out of that race.

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I would pick the same the classics, the

cobbles, but something different as well.

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The Madison at the World Championships

or the Olympics.

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It looks like absolute carnage,

but I love watching it.

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But it's so hard to keep control

from my quiet TV seat.

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Imagine you're in the race.

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Your heart beats up to your 200

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heart rate doing 50 miles an hour

and you go, where's my teammate again?

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He's over there. So I gotta go up and down

and seeing him in.

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It's absolutely fascinating

how that works. But.

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So yeah, I love watching death.

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but I'm happy I'm not racing that.

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Yeah, I you know what? I totally agree.

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That is such a cool event,

but I cannot understand

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how you can sling your teammate in who's

going much slower than you

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in the middle of the field

without crashing.

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Like everybody has to have their head

on a swivel at all times.

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And, you know, we saw a couple

little crashes and a couple little bumps,

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you know, a couple rubs, but no thank you.

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Absolutely no thank you.

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Yeah, I'm with you on both of those.

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I love both of them.

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And you know, Covid was obviously a

really strange thing for a lot of people.

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And there were different moments

of disappointment.

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But I remember turning to my girlfriend

and saying

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that they cancelled Paris-Roubaix.

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And she was like, oh. And I was like,

no, no, you don't understand.

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This has been good.

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Like the wars didn't stop this.

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This is this is just stuff.

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It's the worst day of Covid.

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Honestly, the whole thing, something else

that's been related to, recent events,

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a man who was the star of the Olympics,

in many ways.

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Remco.

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he came through, he dominated.

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He got two gold medals.

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Paul Newman. Not that Paul Newman.

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how can Remco be that strong at 134

pounds?

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This is particularly talking

about the time trials.

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It's just after he won that this came in.

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Well he did something right.

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Because he changed as a rider after that

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crash in in pay Basque.

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we saw it in the Dauphiné.

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We saw it in the tour.

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people have come on our podcast

and told us

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how more relaxed he is.

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Strength is one thing,

but momentum is another.

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And he came out of the tour winning,

having won a stage.

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Him getting third overall

and then somehow being able to recover

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and just had the form of his life

at the right time.

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I think the thing that makes him

so dangerous in time trials is that he

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doesn't have to, tweak his body to be

in the most aerodynamic position.

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When we had Josh Tarling on,

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he was telling us

that he needs more massage

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and physio work on his upper body

and his arms than his legs,

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because he's trying

to get into that Remco position.

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So I don't know.

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But Jens you know,

you remember what it felt like

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when you came out of the tour.

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You were either flying or dying, right?

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Like you just had another gear.

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And it's it's

a very fragile switch between on and off

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after the tour de France.

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And somehow he was able to keep his on

and he actually seemed

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to be even stronger in the Olympics

than he was in the tour de France.

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So, yeah, I will admit it.

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I think I've said it on this podcast

before.

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I was not the biggest Remco Evenepoel fan,

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but he has definitely changed me.

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Like, I am definitely rooting for him

a lot more than than I used to.

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he did something

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right and I hope he continues

to do those things right.

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And you know,

maybe I'll get a Remco Evenepoel.

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fan club shirt to wear on the podcast.

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I was going to say tattoo.

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Yeah.

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That, no tattoo. No.

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I was just going to say just quickly on

that is you were a time trialist,

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Jens you’ve ridden in time trials

to a high level like there's

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a lot about his position

and the lack of power.

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I just think it was

what Paul was getting at.

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it's not just power

and power to weight, is it?

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It's. It's your cDA, isn't it?

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That's the thing that defines it.

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So that's part of the reason he's

so quick.

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Right.

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Well, I guess also, Bobby,

cement for numbers and science.

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But, just to put it

like an easy way to understand

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the Remco is lighter but also shorter.

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So if he sits on a bike,

he creates a lot less air resistance

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because the surface of Remco

and his bike facing the wind is a lot

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smaller than the surface of,

Ganna with 1m 90 or Josh Tarling.

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So if the all three or let's say

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you're styling and Remco

trying to do 50 miles an hour,

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right, the same speed

Josh Tarling would need to push 415W.

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Maybe in Remco only 315.

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So maybe Remco cannot produce 700W

for 20 minutes.

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But he never needs to do that

because he creates less,

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less, less air resistance.

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So that's an advantage.

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And when it comes to the Olympic road

race, it wasn't like a sprint race.

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It wasn't a classic three.

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It was just a race of attrition.

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And his smaller

and more narrow and lighter body carries

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also less weight around.

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So he has less muscles he needs to supply

with oxygen, water and energy.

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Then a big and taller and stronger rider.

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So Remco would probably never win a race

that's 50km long or 35 miles,

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because he would be too small

and it would be like too broad,

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big guys winning that race.

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But since cycling is such a long race

and me mainly made for endurance, Remco

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smaller and lighter body doesn't give him

a disadvantage really at all.

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It's the same

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like Tom Pidcock in the mountain

bike races, right.

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Like he is a small dude.

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You know, we've had, you know, I've seen

interviews with him where I'm just like,

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he looks like a 12 year old little kid,

but, like, he's this monster on a bike.

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So, you know,

that's the greatest thing about cycling.

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And you'll see this on any group ride that

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there's no perfect phenotype of of body.

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Right?

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Like you got big,

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you got small, you got in the middle,

you got lean, you got muscular, you got,

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you know, maybe a little bit more fat,

but can still,

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you know, win races compared to,

you know, super, super skinny people.

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So yeah, it's interesting.

321

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And go back and listen to our podcast

that we had, what was it?

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One of our first ones

with Robbie Ketchell.

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And he spoke a lot about CDA

and the importance of it

324

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and CDA meaning

coefficient of aerodynamic drag

325

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or coefficient,

the drag aerodynamic to get the CDA

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amazing.

327

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And I was just one last follow up on that.

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I mean, there aren't many time trialists

at the moment that have Remco body type.

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Is that a case of he's kind of broken

a barrier down for a lot of people now,

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and maybe some people that would go, I'm

331

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not the right shape to do time trial

and they might consider it.

332

:

Or is that just that he's he's

that much better and he's,

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:

you know, changed it

because he's exceptional as a rider.

334

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We can't forget about Jonas Vingegaard

in the tour de France two years ago.

335

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Yeah, I mean, he's a very small guy

and he produced some amazing power.

336

:

But when I heard his post-race interview,

he said that

337

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his pacing strategy was 360W

and he was going 380.

338

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That doesn't sound like much.

339

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When we had Josh Tarling

saying that he's shooting for 480.

340

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So, you know, kind of back to his point.

341

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You know, it doesn't matter.

342

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The power.

343

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It's a combination of the CDA,

344

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the power, the form, the morale, the

the aerodynamics that they have.

345

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And I don't think there is a single

big GC guy

346

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that hasn't been spending a lot of time

in the wind tunnel.

347

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you know, we saw with, with,

348

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Sepp

Kuss in the, in the Vuelta time trial.

349

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He needs to get in, the wind tunnel

a little bit.

350

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He needs if he wants to,

351

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you know, really guarantee that he's

going to be a year in, year out GC guy.

352

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He can't be losing,

you know, over a minute

353

:

in a seven kilometer

time trial to the favorites.

354

:

There is a

355

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question about Sepp coming up a bit later

on, but we'll leave that for a moment.

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this came from Scott on our Patreon page.

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So thanks, Scott, for that.

358

:

in the last episode,

so this will be the last mailbag episode

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:

the two of you discussed being on

the same team and growing your friendship.

360

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What was it like being friends

but on different teams?

361

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Did you find yourself gravitating towards

each other in the peloton

362

:

when not required to do teamwork?

363

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Would you talk smack

about the opposing team or their bikes?

364

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Or how their kit looks?

365

:

Or you're strictly on team only lockdown?

366

:

we definitely gravitated

towards each other, that's for sure.

367

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And I think we

we basically we're the same age,

368

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we married with kids,

so we talk a lot about kids.

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How they were little angels and hell

raisers within one minute of time.

370

:

And, how do we deal with, you know,

371

:

the, the challenges of being an athlete

and, like,

372

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you know, as a pro cyclist,

you should ride your bike.

373

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If you cannot do that,

you should lay down.

374

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If you cannot lay down, you should sit.

375

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If you cannot sit,

376

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you should be standing and walking

or running should be the last thing.

377

:

But as soon as I would come home

and and my my cleats would make this

378

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typical click, click, click noise

to make when they hit a hard surface

379

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when I walked towards the garage

to put my bike away,

380

:

the kids would come running

out of the house.

381

:

Dad, dad, dad, let's go to the zoo.

382

:

Dad, let's go and get ice cream.

383

:

And I cannot have ice cream.

384

:

I can have a water

because ice cream is just fat and sugar,

385

:

so it's not good for me.

386

:

So you know how to do to

to deal with this daily challenges.

387

:

There was a lot of talks of Bobby and I.

388

:

We had

389

:

I don't think Bobby ever talked much about

cars or expensive watches, didn't we?

390

:

No, no we didn't, we didn't.

391

:

But you know, so from those two years

together at Credit Agricole

392

:

and then I left and I went to German team

Telecom.

393

:

Like, my buddy is a German and he's

one of the best riders on the planet.

394

:

And he was never on Team Telecom.

395

:

So that was always kind of

ironic and funny.

396

:

And we we talk about that a lot.

397

:

and then of course, at CSC

we were best of friends.

398

:

But when I, switch teams

and then switch teams like so we,

399

:

we rode I worked for

400

:

CSC Saxo Bank and Jens was a rider,

and then he left to go

401

:

to, Leopard Trek and I went to Sky.

402

:

we always had this, yearly

kind of get together after Pyrenees

403

:

where he would come up to my house,

we'd go out for Mexican food,

404

:

we'd come back up, have some Coronas,

and just relax a little bit.

405

:

He'd go on

some of those geocaching things.

406

:

Do you still do that geocaching?

407

:

Absolutely.

408

:

We up to 2,300 found caches right now.

409

:

You know when when he told me

410

:

like after the Mexican that, hey,

there is a little cache around the corner.

411

:

And then he goes and gets it

and he holds it up.

412

:

I have a picture of it and I'm just like,

that's so dumb.

413

:

Like, why?

414

:

And he, he, he absolutely loved it.

415

:

But that that was

where it was kind of tricky.

416

:

because I was working for another team

417

:

and he was writing for another team,

and I basically said, you know, screw it.

418

:

If I get in trouble

for hanging out with my best buddy,

419

:

even though he's not on my team,

I'll take the consequences.

420

:

That was what I was going to ask on that.

421

:

You know, you're both big fans.

422

:

You know, we spend most of the week

talking about cycling in one form

423

:

or another.

424

:

Like, did you find it difficult

to not talk about cycling, or was it

425

:

just a, you know,

you're so in it at that time,

426

:

any any conversation away from

the sport was a relief.

427

:

I think we had a good balanced

year. Right.

428

:

We we talked about cycling and gears

429

:

and gear ratios

and what are the percentage diets,

430

:

how we can increase

our performance was better training.

431

:

But I don't I but we also talked about

hey, where you go on holiday.

432

:

I never heard of that.

433

:

Where is that? How is it over there.

434

:

Yeah.

435

:

And if if you don't know Jens, he's

a walking encyclopedia.

436

:

So he knows so much about Europe,

especially about Germany.

437

:

about everything that there.

438

:

You didn't really have to talk

about cycling too often.

439

:

And, you know,

one thing that I tried to talk to him

440

:

about that

he never listened to was, you know,

441

:

I had this little Swiss ball and I do my,

my core work on the Swiss ball.

442

:

And I was always stretching.

443

:

I always had a blanket down on the ground.

444

:

And, you know, he

he would always look down at me

445

:

when I was on the ground and be like,

oh, I need to start that.

446

:

I need to start that.

447

:

And he, he, I got, I saw something

448

:

that he was at a training camp

and he was actually participating

449

:

in these stretching,

stretching, core exercises.

450

:

And I was like, you son of a gun.

451

:

Like, we could have been doing that

the whole time.

452

:

And now that I leave you

all of a sudden of this, this, this,

453

:

core routine

specialist, I was like, what a faker.

454

:

Well, I lasted about three and a half days

with high school.

455

:

I was watching my camera, just,

you know, social media.

456

:

But I remember Bobby, one time,

457

:

I believe two of Germany, we,

riding through Germany.

458

:

And I point out, hey,

you see that big castle up there?

459

:

That is where Martin Luther,

not Martin Luther King,

460

:

but Martin Luther was a hold

almost hostage

461

:

to protect himself,

from getting killed by the church.

462

:

Anyway, was in two years time.

463

:

Martin Luther

464

:

translated the Bible from Latin language

into German, the way we speak it.

465

:

And by the way, he created the first basic

rules of the German we speak today.

466

:

And you went, wow, awesome.

So much history.

467

:

We ran the race and you ready?

468

:

Wow, how cool is that?

469

:

Language was created

on that castle up there.

470

:

It wasn't like we were like in the car.

471

:

In the bus before or after.

472

:

Like you're giving us this whole spiel

like when we're, like,

473

:

going at 45 k an hour, I was like,

okay, man, I that's really cool.

474

:

But, you know,

we got a race to think about here.

475

:

So this is what I love

about these podcasts, these mailbag ones.

476

:

You know, Scott sent a message and he was

expecting you to be talking smack about.

477

:

And you're actually talking about Martin

Luther,

478

:

the reformation of the German church

in the middle of a race.

479

:

Brilliant. Yes.

And then the race. Absolutely.

480

:

you mentioned a little bit about language

there.

481

:

Elly Avilla on Facebook,

she says, languages in the tour.

482

:

Does everyone speak

more than one language?

483

:

If someone doesn't speak

a certain language,

484

:

are they less likely to be signed

by certain teams?

485

:

So if you're if you don't speak French,

486

:

will you not get signed by someone to add

you to,

487

:

and what a memorable moments

you've had with fans

488

:

on the course as a rider

on, spectator positive or negative?

489

:

I, I remember I don't think

490

:

it's like this anymore, but it's on

so many French teams and Spanish teams.

491

:

They only spoke French or Spanish now.

492

:

I mean, you could have a full on

conversation with Roman Bardet in English,

493

:

you know, Matteo

Jorgenson speaks French, Spanish,

494

:

obviously English, like a lot of riders

seem to be

495

:

by tri quad

lingual now, like back in the day,

496

:

the only riders that spoke multiple

languages were, you know, us knuckleheads.

497

:

And then especially the Swiss guys,

you know, they would speak 4 or 5,

498

:

six languages. It was pretty impressive.

499

:

I don't know what it's like anymore,

500

:

but I get the feeling

that English is the big one.

501

:

And I know that

502

:

French teams would sign

503

:

somebody that doesn't speak French,

but they would, motivate them

504

:

to take little linguistic classes

in the off season because, like,

505

:

you know, that's a hard language to learn

when you're especially

506

:

when you're an American.

507

:

For me,

at least with the accents and stuff.

508

:

But I don't know.

What do you think, Jensie?

509

:

I mean, you're around the sport,

510

:

you know, boots on the ground with these

guys a lot more than than I am these days.

511

:

Well, let's start.

512

:

my my first, big team was a gun,

513

:

which and later became

tried out in court and said, yep. Yes.

514

:

We sign you.

515

:

I only had a one year deal,

516

:

but and we sign you,

we want you to move to France to be

517

:

part of our culture, learn our language

and be closer to the team.

518

:

So I would have no, a license at all

to live in Germany or anywhere.

519

:

I said, no, we want you in France

to learn our language, be

520

:

part of our culture

that has changed a lot.

521

:

And Bobby, you’re right

English is the main language

522

:

because everybody understands.

523

:

also in our early years,

524

:

you know, if you were a British

or an American cyclist, you were exotic.

525

:

You were like,

wow, one of the few, you know,

526

:

even a Swedish rider was,

oh, wow, a Swedish rider,

527

:

you know, most of the peloton was Spanish,

Italian or France.

528

:

Right. Tour de France.

529

:

Back in the 80s, 100 French riders

and a few foreigners.

530

:

death has changed a lot now.

531

:

We had riders from Australia, Japan,

Africa.

532

:

gimme, you know, open door.

533

:

We open to pass for African cycling.

534

:

Even more so, being exotic.

535

:

It's normal these days, right?

536

:

It's tour Fong probably, you know, 20, 30,

maybe 20 nations starting there.

537

:

so English is definitely, the language.

538

:

Also, in my first 1 or 2 years of cycling,

only French

539

:

was the official, cycling language.

540

:

Then later he changed it to English.

541

:

So you could also do some UCI test

and UCI.

542

:

Let's say

543

:

if you want to become a commissaire,

you could do all that in English as well.

544

:

So yes, it is more open

545

:

and everybody speaks probably.

546

:

Yeah, two languages

I would say at least. Yes.

547

:

And there's multiple multiple.

548

:

to the second part of your question

or her question,

549

:

you know, about good experiences

and bad experiences with fans?

550

:

there were there were multitudes,

551

:

you know, thousands either

each way, I think.

552

:

But one really sticks out to me

was the year,

553

:

it was the 1998 tour de France,

and we were going up the Madeleine

554

:

and Pantani and Ullrich were up the road.

555

:

My I was sitting in second position

at that time.

556

:

I wound up third and they just went on

a totally different speed than me.

557

:

So I'm at the top of the Madeleine

558

:

didn't really know what a gram of

carbohydrate was back then, so I'm bonking

559

:

right at the top and I'm like, man,

I'm not going to be able to make this.

560

:

And I come around the corner and I kid

561

:

you not, there was an angel,

562

:

an angel with a can of Coke

or a bottle of Coke.

563

:

You know,

where you could twist off the top and

564

:

I'm like, am I seeing this?

565

:

Am I hallucinating?

566

:

Like, this is an angel

sitting there with the coke.

567

:

So I grabbed the coke and I went back

and watched the the footage of the race.

568

:

And it was an angel.

569

:

It was,

specialized was doing some publicity

570

:

and she was kind of like, she

she just had her, like, her angel wings.

571

:

And, you know, she gave me that coke.

572

:

So that was like my best memory

because it absolutely saved me.

573

:

and then the one of the worst memories

574

:

was, I think it was Tour of Germany,

575

:

and we were at the start line, and,

you know, these days were different.

576

:

And I remember Jens,

you were in the yellow jersey

577

:

and there was a German guy

and just within earshot of me,

578

:

he was he

he was saying bad things about you, like,

579

:

you know, traitor

because you were on a Danish team

580

:

and you were being,

you know, winning the tour of Germany.

581

:

And I remember I turned around

and I got so mad at this person like,

582

:

you know, this guy does everything,

and he is one of the best German riders.

583

:

And you, you

you deserve more respect than that.

584

:

So those are my two little positive

and negatives.

585

:

And I'm sure I have a lot more.

586

:

But those were the ones

that came up to the top of my head.

587

:

When you ask that question.

588

:

and talk about

589

:

languages, people speak 2 or 3 languages,

but believe me,

590

:

we can swear

at least in 15 languages at one time.

591

:

Honestly,

I had a puncture on my mountain bike.

592

:

Like one of these terrible,

stupid, cold, rainy November days.

593

:

I was out a mountain

bike rain. Wet, muddy.

594

:

I called fingers, trying to change a tire.

595

:

I kind of like twisted my fingers,

I was hurting, I was swearing,

596

:

so colorful in this forest

that the trees were blushing.

597

:

The trees were turning away from me.

598

:

I was swearing in Japanese,

Russian, Italian, French,

599

:

Spanish, German, British or English words.

600

:

It was fantastic.

601

:

I felt so much better after that.

602

:

So swearing is our strength.

603

:

We probably know at least 50 languages.

604

:

We can swear in.

605

:

Okay, so like we've spoken

about the lingua franca, been English.

606

:

It used to be French or Spanish, you know.

607

:

Is there a lingua franca, a common,

608

:

most commonly used language

for swearing in the peloton?

609

:

Is that one that everyone goes to?

610

:

Because the words are really good,

they really get the emotion across.

611

:

But I believe Italian, it's

probably up there.

612

:

Oh yeah. Yeah, we can.

613

:

Unfortunately, we cannot see the words,

you know, important.

614

:

And we don't even know what they mean,

you know.

615

:

So like when you'd say them thinking

that, hey,

616

:

I'm just going to fit in

and this guy's going to be like, you know.

617

:

No, that I'm not happy with him.

618

:

he look at me, like, shocked

that I said that.

619

:

I'm like, you guys say it all

the time. Why can't I see?

620

:

But we never really understood.

621

:

Oh, no, no, no,

you can't say that if you squint. Italian.

622

:

Very important.

623

:

Keep your hands like this.

You have to talk like this.

624

:

And really fast.

625

:

That is typical Italian swearing.

626

:

your your best and worst experience.

627

:

But obviously with a spectator lens,

you got a bike of one.

628

:

So that must have been a pretty good one.

629

:

But you know,

you got to have a good and bad memories.

630

:

I got a good memory. Yes.

631

:

I, you know, opposite to Bobby.

632

:

Bobby was racing Alpe D’huez.

633

:

I was always dropped. Right.

634

:

My job was the valley before to,

635

:

you know, get Carlos Sastre

and the Schleck brothers into Alpe D’huez.

636

:

That I was dropped. So I'm all by myself.

637

:

Drop from the first group

not caught by the peloton yet.

638

:

So I'm all by myself,

you know, looking down,

639

:

trying to see if a little bit of energy.

640

:

Because a few more days suddenly.

641

:

Don't laugh

too early, don't laugh too early.

642

:

Suddenly I hear a voice Jens, I love you,

I want your, baby.

643

:

And I'm looking up.

644

:

It's a 55 year old man with a huge belly

like this little spandex

645

:

jersey

almost exploding like big black beard,

646

:

you know, like some 50 plus years old

yelling at me on top of his lungs.

647

:

Yeah.

648

:

And so I love you. I want you, baby.

649

:

So I had to laugh.

650

:

I had to laugh with him.

651

:

and I was like, well, worst

experience was also on Alpe D’huez

652

:

when we had an individual time

trial up there.

653

:

It hilltop time trial.

654

:

And just a day before,

655

:

I was in a breakaway, they called me back

656

:

because Ullrich had attacked, and, my team

657

:

called me back, said, yeah,

we need you to come back or he's gone.

658

:

We got not enough man here.

659

:

We need you in the peloton

660

:

help chasing for Ivan Bassol,

who was second at the time.

661

:

Right. And all he was about to pass him.

662

:

So I stopped on the road side, waited

for the peloton and, helped to repack.

663

:

And somehow it became almost a misogynist

standing with German TV,

664

:

did a few just unlucky words,

and then it ignited itself

665

:

the next day on the individual time trial,

I heard every bad word, every animal

666

:

name, rat being almost the nicest one,

you can ever imagine.

667

:

I actually, every time I saw a fan,

like getting one step on the road,

668

:

I like, okay, if he hits me,

how do I react on this?

669

:

If he hits me, do I hit him back

or I just ignore to keep racing.

670

:

So I was so tensed up the entire

671

:

16 17km up there because I expected

672

:

somebody is going to hit me in the face

any moment of to.

673

:

That was by far the worst

and the only time really

674

:

I experienced so much hatred by people.

675

:

I remember that I was at the truck,

because I went before you.

676

:

Because that was

when I had my broken wrist.

677

:

And you came to the truck

after the time trial,

678

:

and you were just ranting like

you were so disappointed in these people,

679

:

and most of them were Germans

that were yelling these things at you.

680

:

And and you just went on this rant

that I think was caught on.

681

:

Remember

we had the, high on crew for overcoming,

682

:

so yeah,

a lot of that was was caught on film

683

:

and I was just like,

oh man, stay out of his way.

684

:

But it looked like you could have gone

685

:

down to the bottom and done

another time trial.

686

:

You were like so amped up after that.

687

:

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

688

:

I was a lot of anger

and disappointment in me on that day. Yep.

689

:

Okay, so we've got, a message here

from Trudy Luise

690

:

she sent this via Facebook,

and she was at the center.

691

:

Or she was witness to one of the greatest

tour de France moments ever.

692

:

She said I was living in France

and was on the show.

693

:

That is a it's a witness.

694

:

Le Monde come from behind to beat Fignon.

695

:

To me, this is bike racing at its best.

696

:

But you never say die

and you fight to the bitter end.

697

:

So there's a two part question

that follows on from this.

698

:

Firstly, why did the format change?

699

:

So the last day is nothing more

than a glorified parade lap for the GC.

700

:

Obviously excluding this year.

701

:

I grew up following cycling

during what I would call the glory days

702

:

and the thought of gifting a stage

703

:

to say thank you to your teammate

I don't think would ever have happened.

704

:

So why is it considered racing

when the strongest rider

705

:

doesn't win a stage,

or perhaps even the race?

706

:

Does the winner not feel

this is a hollow victory of sorts?

707

:

Specific.

708

:

I'm thinking about last year's Evo Vuelta

amorphous up Kuss and I give him kudos.

709

:

But if his teammates hadn't,

been told to back off,

710

:

essentially he wouldn't have won

popular does not mean best

711

:

fighting talk.

712

:

What do you say, man?

713

:

We have to,

urge our listeners and viewers to send in

714

:

some shorter questions because though

there was a quite a few things there,

715

:

so gifting a stage,

I was never in that situation.

716

:

I don't know if I would have wanted to,

but I do remember where

717

:

exactly where I was in 1989

when when Greg LeMond won that time trial.

718

:

it ignited something in me.

719

:

but that was they,

720

:

you know, they didn't have the time

trial is the last stage very much.

721

:

You know, it is that procession.

722

:

You know, the race is over.

723

:

It kind of gives the a reward

to the people that finish the tour de

724

:

France, that they,

you know, have a beautiful run into Paris.

725

:

And then once you get into Paris,

then it's full gas.

726

:

And, you know, as we saw in the Olympics

this year,

727

:

you know, Paris

ain't a bad place to finish a bike race.

728

:

It's not a bad place to do anything

really.

729

:

Right.

730

:

So, I don't

731

:

I'm not

732

:

a big fan of, time trial on the last day.

733

:

the the tour of Spain this year is

going to end with a time trial.

734

:

It started with a time trial.

It's going to end with a time trial?

735

:

Yeah.

736

:

You know, I think it's better for the fans

to have that party atmosphere,

737

:

that celebratory vibe at the end of a race

instead of

738

:

just watching a bunch of guys come through

with like, spaceballs helmets on.

739

:

but yeah, the gifting a stage thing,

740

:

like I said, I never did it myself.

741

:

But, when Lance Armstrong gifted

Marco Pantani the win up on top of Alp

742

:

d’Huez, on, Mount Ventoux

one of the years that he won,

743

:

I was just like, I wonder what like,

744

:

you know, Marco felt about that, you know.

745

:

Or why why Lance did that.

746

:

but if it's a teammate,

747

:

up to as with with he know in LeMond,

748

:

you know, it looked at it look like,

you know,

749

:

Bernard Hinault was going to gift

Greg LeMond the win.

750

:

And then at the last second,

he kind of pushed his pushed his bike,

751

:

you know, just one inch ahead of

of Greg's.

752

:

And I don't know, I guess when when you're

at that level, it doesn't really matter.

753

:

But not not a big fan of the gifting

the stage thing.

754

:

But to defend Sepp Kuss, I don't think

anybody gifted anything to him

755

:

because they attacked him

on that final uphill stage.

756

:

And and he held on.

757

:

He limited his losses.

758

:

He may not have been in that position,

of having that advance.

759

:

You know, when he got into that breakaway,

because they were looking at Jonas

760

:

and Primoz was a little bit too much,

761

:

but they did not seem

like they were slowing down.

762

:

You know, that last day.

763

:

Yeah, I think they they said, okay,

we got a lot of bad press.

764

:

This isn't isn't good.

765

:

But, you know, Sepp sacrificed

so much for those two guys

766

:

that I was actually sickened

when they just kept going full gas.

767

:

and then

768

:

luckily came to their senses

the next day and and didn't attack them.

769

:

But I don't think they

they really gifted him much.

770

:

What do you think he ends.

771

:

Well, I,

I totally agree with all you said.

772

:

And I could talk an hour about all this.

773

:

Let's start with the easy part

the TTs? Yes.

774

:

Yesterday. Dramatic.

775

:

but it Grand tour is 21 stages.

776

:

So if the last day is just a parade,

777

:

which then ends up in a really tough, hard

sprint, right?

778

:

The first part is parade

taking pictures, talking to France.

779

:

Second half of the race on the last day is

780

:

actually a really hard race

for the sprinters as well.

781

:

people had 20 days, 20 stages

782

:

to fight out the, classement

783

:

So they don't need 21 days

like the result is the same.

784

:

They had 20 days time to make sure

the best is in the front,

785

:

so give them that easy.

786

:

They still try to remember

my days as a rider.

787

:

I was so grateful

788

:

and thankful for this parade

and a lot of respect from the spectators.

789

:

They would be there in Paris on the Champs

Elysées to see this.

790

:

It was a really good, great magic moment

791

:

and I was grateful to experience

that instead of being, you know, spread,

792

:

covered out of breath with that helmet on

and just shooting down the road.

793

:

and most people kind of want it anyway.

794

:

So out of 160,

176 riders to start in the Grand Tour,

795

:

maybe six can win

and another ten go for GC.

796

:

And the rest you go,

797

:

it's just another day.

798

:

I need to go to the finish line.

799

:

So, I think every 20 days, every sorry.

800

:

Every 20 years, every 15 years,

you can change it up with.

801

:

But it should stay the parade.

802

:

I support that.

803

:

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong.

804

:

It's just my opinion,

about gifting a stage.

805

:

just an example out of my own experience.

806

:

Giro d’Italia,

we have Ivan Basso in lead jersey.

807

:

you're a one, 2 or 3 stages.

808

:

and I think we were leading

the team GC as well.

809

:

So then Bjarne Riis, my sport

director back then in CSC days

810

:

comes on and goes, hey, actually,

we want everybody.

811

:

stay with Ivan.

812

:

He's in the leaders jersey, except for us.

813

:

If he has to break ten riders or more,

you go

814

:

and you'll be policing to breakaway.

815

:

So in case something goes bad on the last

816

:

mountain, you can always drop back

and help our leader.

817

:

Ok chef!

818

:

So I catch the break twelve riders

as I said, hey listen guys,

819

:

I'm just here to watch this,

I cannot work.

820

:

I got my captain and friend and teammate

back there in the lead jersey.

821

:

Do you never give me any shit?

822

:

You never give me any stress.

823

:

I said, look, I cannot work

halfway to the true to stage.

824

:

I go, hey, Bjarne

how does it work back there?

825

:

Could I maybe start turning a little bit

so I would earn the right to go

826

:

for the finish, to go for the win?

827

:

Bjarne goes

na, you ust sit there and wait.

828

:

They start attacking each other.

829

:

I always follow the fastest group.

The fastest group.

830

:

So it goes down to six riders

to five for us, I say Bjarne,

831

:

can I start working to earn the right

to go for a stage win?

832

:

No we aren't. I told you to sit.

833

:

In the end, we have two riders

left, manual grata and myself

834

:

and and grata was back

done with quickstep.

835

:

He had, Bertini down in a world champion

836

:

jersey, sacrificed himself for great.

837

:

And another 1 or 2 riders

838

:

do you all were just killing themselves

to make the race harder.

839

:

So Gárate

the best climber, could win the stage.

840

:

So it's Garate and myself

841

:

and I go, hey, Manuel, listen,

I cannot win this.

842

:

You win. It's your stage.

843

:

It's only three minutes to go to, to go.

844

:

You win this one.

I will not sprint for this one.

845

:

And more or less. Right.

846

:

Then Bjarne comes on goes Jens.

847

:

Everything's under control in the peloton.

848

:

You can go for the win.

849

:

And I said, honest, I cannot win.

850

:

I just gave him my word that I will not

sprint and I don't deserve it.

851

:

So great to didn't really believe it

until he crossed the line

852

:

that I actually gave it to him,

and I made sure he feel safe.

853

:

So I left him 50m out so he would be safe.

854

:

That I'm not gonna out sprint him.

855

:

And I believe, Juan Manuel,

he still talks about today,

856

:

talks about his body right now

with, Ineos Grenadiers

857

:

and a German friend of mine, Andreas

Klier For my rider.

858

:

He said, yeah, yeah,

859

:

like whatever, once a month

or so he mentioned you and that win,

860

:

that he's still so flattened

and so impressed that you gave it to him.

861

:

and also could have won the stage.

862

:

He has, of course, but

can I steal the candy from a small kid?

863

:

He has, of course,

but it just don't do that.

864

:

Can I steal the purse of an old lady, yes,

of course, but you just don't do that.

865

:

And if you don't work for 200km,

you cannot outsprint the poor fellow.

866

:

Next with you, who worked for 20km.

867

:

So I didn't really feel

like giving away to stage.

868

:

I just showed respect to the men

or the teams doing the work.

869

:

So yeah, I think it's okay

every now and then, just out of respect.

870

:

and for step cars, Bobby, I agree 50%.

871

:

they did not wait for Sepp

872

:

Kuss last year in the Vuelta

until the last.

873

:

Like you said, you realize

you got so much bad press, so much stress.

874

:

Even I was quite vocal and had my opinion.

875

:

Outlook.

876

:

This is just wrong.

877

:

Primoz Roglic

that year won the Giro d’Italia.

878

:

Not 100% because.

879

:

But a large part of it was Sepp

Kuss being there,

880

:

being a loyal teammate

and saving his ass again.

881

:

And again.

882

:

Jonas Vingegaard won the tour de France

that year,

883

:

also because Sepp Kuss

was there saving his ass again and again.

884

:

So I feel you.

885

:

You two are no humans,

just give the man some respect.

886

:

He sacrificed three years of his life

serving you, making you win the big races.

887

:

So this would be the moment to go.

888

:

Hey, sir, we are so happy.

889

:

Did you have a chance to win this one?

Of course.

890

:

This is for you.

891

:

So it took a big

no from the probably higher ups

892

:

to tell them to to stop chasing Sepp Kuss,

893

:

So they didn't

really want to give it to him.

894

:

But the team decided, stop this.

895

:

This is for Sepp Kuss

and we got to make sure he wins.

896

:

I don't think the other two

were too happy about it,

897

:

and much Primoz is

not in the team anymore. So,

898

:

I guess

they didn't really give it to him.

899

:

He really had to work hard for it.

900

:

I heard I was in that race in the Giro

in:

901

:

when, when this happened with the ends

and we could hear it on the radio,

902

:

we could hear the direct order

from Bjarne - Jens you win.

903

:

No, Bjarne I'm not.

904

:

And cross the finish line,

905

:

you know, behind you

guys, we're in the peloton

906

:

and I don't think I've ever been

more proud to call you my friend.

907

:

Then after that,

when I saw you in the bus,

908

:

I remember giving you the biggest hug.

909

:

And I was just like,

I don't know if I could have done that.

910

:

in that situation, I wasn't as prolific

of a winner as you were, but I.

911

:

I was so proud.

912

:

Call you a friend after that stage for

913

:

for the person that you were for the, the

914

:

the morals that you had,

concerning that situation.

915

:

And, I'm glad he tells that story

because it's a story

916

:

worth being told over and over.

917

:

Thank you.

918

:

Bobby.

919

:

Oh. It's lovely.

920

:

just, one final point.

921

:

You sort of mentioned the.

922

:

Neither of you would be particularly

a fan of coming in for a time trial into,

923

:

Paris for that final stage,

924

:

something that was mooted

quite a lot during the Olympics.

925

:

How would you feel if that finishing

circuit was the final stage of the tour?

926

:

it would be impossible,

927

:

that that would be no fun at all.

928

:

I think they keep it

the way that they've had

929

:

it, the way

that it's always been a sprinter stage.

930

:

Like you said, there's already 20 stages

that,

931

:

that, you know, climbers and breakaway

specialists can go for that.

932

:

That was crazy.

933

:

Crowds on some very, very small streets

with 90 people in the peloton

934

:

and that peloton thinned out to 50

pretty quickly.

935

:

Right.

936

:

So can you imagine, you know, 176 guys

start the tour de France,

937

:

say 150 on a good year,

could maybe finish the tour

938

:

de France, that circuit with 150 guys

and all the cars?

939

:

No way. it was gorgeous to watch.

940

:

I mean, it was so awesome

seeing that on TV,

941

:

and I'm glad we got to witness that,

but I'm glad it was definitely, you know,

942

:

that reduced peloton, or it would have

been it would have been nuts.

943

:

Well,

call me a dreamer, but how about that?

944

:

Instead of having the Saturday

or Friday stage in Alpe d’Huez

945

:

and have an entire weekend in Paris

and reenact the entire Olympics.

946

:

Have it on Friday on the same circuit,

947

:

maybe a little longer,

and where the roads are too small.

948

:

I agree with that, Bobby,

but have a long, tough, hilly circuit

949

:

in Paris on Saturday

950

:

and then on Sunday you have to show comes

easy parade and everybody can be happy.

951

:

Cruising down the Champs-Élysées

a maybe half an entire weekend in Paris.

952

:

Yeah, just paralyze the whole entire city

for not one day, but three.

953

:

Yeah, that makes sense.

954

:

Yeah. Let's,

you should propose that to a lot.

955

:

Parties. We might have a chance because,

956

:

the city

957

:

mayor, Andy Hidalgo, she is big into,

958

:

getting traffic out of the city,

having speed,

959

:

two, three zones everywhere, electric

traffic, having bikes everywhere.

960

:

So we would actually have a chance

to get her on our podcast.

961

:

I believe.

962

:

Okay, well,

we'll get Prudhomme and Hidalgo together

963

:

and we'll sort this out, but,

that was a brilliant,

964

:

mailbag episode.

965

:

Thanks very much

for sending in your questions.

966

:

Remember, if you want to get your question

in the next one,

967

:

anywhere you see our tandem message,

these guys directly,

968

:

or send it to the tandem at Shop draft.com

and we'll get it answered.

969

:

Thanks very much.

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.