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Published on:

30th Oct 2024

Mailbag V: Altitude, Innovative Racing and Conquering Fear

Bobby and Jens open up the mailbag as they attempt to find answers to your cycling questions. How many races can Pogacar win in rainbows? What can cycling learn from biathlon? And what did Bobby just learn about his race ending Tour de France crashes?

All this and more in this months mailbag. Remember to send your questions in the comments below... via our Odd Tandem social media channels or at OddTandem@shockedgiraffe.com

Remember, to hear the ad free version of the podcast - head to Patreon.com/oddtandem

Transcript
Speaker:

Hey, everyone,

it's time for another mailbag episode.

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We have been after your questions

about everything and anything to do

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with the world of cycling.

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And, yeah, we've got a few

that have come in already, so let's get

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started with this one from Kim,

who sent this on Instagram.

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She says, I live at 28,000....

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28,000m blimey, she’d

ive on Everest...she lives at:

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All of my rides

involve long climbs of up to:

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What's the power difference

compared to riding at sea level?

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So I'm guessing

you know how much power lost you have

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when you go to altitude

compared to sea level?

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I suppose in your careers,

did you feel it?

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Oh, yeah.

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I have a spreadsheet for dealing

with every single altitude band.

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I've never seen one from 2500 to 3000.

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Let alone over 3000m.

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But it is substantial.

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I would say,

you know, just spitballing, like,

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you know, not the perfect chart that

I don't have pulled up in front of me,

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but it would probably be at least

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40W difference from your sea level.

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Wow. Big difference.

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And when you were riding, you know,

what does that feel like?

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You know, I been up mountains

and relative value, but I can't tell you

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if I've been over the 3000 threshold

that everyone talks about.

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Can you really feel

that difference, that step up?

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Yes you can.

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Well, first of all, the air

is thinner up there so you roll faster.

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You actually with the same felt effort.

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You're rolling.

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You're moving faster because there's less

air resistance on the other other side.

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That also means

if you don't do any countermeasures,

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you lose muscle mass

because your body goes, oh, this is easy.

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I don't need these muscles anymore.

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So you might lose muscle mass as well.

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And basically,

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you breathe like a fish on the land

your mouth is wide open.

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You breathe as fast and as hard

and as deep as you can, and you just don't

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get enough oxygen or off the whatever

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5 or 6l of lung volume you have.

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You fill your lungs,

and it's just not enough oxygen in the air

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to to to give your master

the supply, the need.

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And that's

where you feel power drops and everything.

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Just your entire performance drops. Okay.

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Got another one?

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Brilliant name, by the way,

this is from Fat Daddy AJ, which is,

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you know, say the name again.

I want to hear it again.

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Fat fat daddy AJ fat daddy AJ yeah.

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First time messager to the podcast.

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He asks, how do you overcome the fear

after a bad crash?

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I know you've both had serious crashes on

alpine descent.

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Yeah, the next, next year

we see you bombing down alpine passes.

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So I guess, you know, after a bad crash,

how do you bounce back?

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I think youth, youth is

how you bounce back.

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Because the longer and longer

I went in my career,

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the more difficult

it was to pop up after a bad crash.

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I did break bones.

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I did, finish my tour de France

not once, but twice in an ambulance.

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In a time trial of all things

crash and two time trials my whole life.

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And both of them

were in the tour de France.

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But I never had anything, like,

really scary.

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But I recently,

in the middle of the summer,

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did break my collarbone,

and that was a big shock.

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So I was 16 years as a pro,

never broke my collarbone,

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16 years retired

and then wound up breaking my collarbone.

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And ever since then,

these last couple months, I must admit

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I am absolutely like a grandma

going down these descents

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and I'm a lot more cautious

when I'm on gravel.

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So, it's it's you got to get over it.

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It's your job.

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But like, once you start getting older

and you have kids and other things

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you're thinking of doing

the rest of your life,

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it gets a little bit more difficult,

I think.

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What do you think Jensie?

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yes. Being young helps, of course.

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And if it's not a crash

where you cannot stand up anymore,

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the first thing you as a normal cyclist,

you do jump back up,

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check your bike, check

if the bike's okay and jump back on it.

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And only

then you start checking your body.

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But you kind of like you trick yourself

before your brain sets in

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in a rational way and goes, hey,

maybe you want to go to the ambulance.

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You have to be back on a bike and go,

the boys need me to team meets me.

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I need to keep going.

And then you check your body.

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So that helps

because you're a back in motion.

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If you end up in a hospital

with the ambulance.

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I had that as well once.

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Then, Yeah.

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If you're young,

you still feel fearless and, invincible.

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If you're older, I try to have

the logic approach I taught myself.

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Okay, if 30 bike riders in front of me

can take this turn at this speed,

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just by pure logic, me on 31st

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position, I must make this turn as well.

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Like the 30 riders in front of me.

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It's dry roads.

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We all have the same conditions,

so it must work.

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Don't brake,

don’t brake, don't brake, don't brake.

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And then you make it.

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And once you push through that barrier,

once it becomes a lot easier.

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But also, like Bobby said, once

you get older, your priorities change.

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You have children at home

and you want to be home with them.

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And in the ideal scenario,

50 years down the road,

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you want to maybe become a grandpa

or 30 years down the road.

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So since I did not like to call myself

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a shitty descender,

I invented a new category for myself.

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I was a careful descender.

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I just tried to

from try to stay away from trouble.

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I was not slow. I was not terrible.

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I was just careful.

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So that was my own category.

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Just don't know because you obviously it

that really serious crash in:

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when you got back on the bike in training,

was there was that still in your mind?

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Were you thinking about that crash

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or do you just go out

and back on the bike, you know, game face.

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Let's go.

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Not in training, not in racing,

not not in sprints.

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Only when we had downhills

and we would go about

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what is that, 40 miles

an hour, 65, 70 miles an hour.

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That's I call them the bone

crusher downhills.

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Like when you go down, you break bones.

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When you go down at 40,

it hurts like hell, but

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very likely

you can get back up and back on the bike.

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So I left my comfort zone after that crash

when we hit, you know, 40

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plus miles or whatever,

some 60, 70km an hour.

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That's when I felt uncomfortable.

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And it did cross my mind

once or twice. Yes.

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Okay. Okay. Completely different note now.

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Vern Loebssent this one in via Instagram.

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He said,

we all know that Pogacar would win

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wearing rainbows,

but how many will he win in the jersey?

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For reference, Mark Cavendish

in:

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That's the first benchmark.

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He said.

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The record is, Mertens.

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Freddy Mertens,

who he got 44 now and Pogacar

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last year

got 25 race wins, from 57 race days.

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So I suppose. Where do you see him?

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How many races do you see him

picking up next year in that rainbow?

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Well, let's just say cycling changes

at the drop of a hat.

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I mean, you could have a season

like he had this year and then next year.

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Not nearly as good.

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You know, hopefully he'll be healthy.

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Hopefully you won't have any crashes.

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But there is no way at this moment

to keep him from winning.

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At least a quarter,

not half like he did this year,

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but at least a quarter of the races

that he's entering because

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he he's just riding his bike at a

totally different level.

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And, it's going to be interesting,

but I'm sure he's not

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going to have any issues with the curse of

the rainbow jersey next year.

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Definitely no

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curse after curse of the rainbow

jersey for him.

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And I am a big fan of Poggi of Pogacar,

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but after a year like this

where everything did fall in line for him,

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he achieved history making,

you know, the Grand Slam

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of cycling with the Giro, Tour

and the Worlds

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it would be almost impossible

to repeat it.

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Have another 25 wins like that.

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He wins anything between 10

and 15 races for sure.

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But again, 25.

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I wish the best for him, but

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to have another season like that,

that would be almost unheard of. So.

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But for sure he will be spectacular.

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Like he will be great and easily

win 10 to 15 races next year.

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Of course, there's

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you know, the rainbow jersey features in

one of the greatest bits of sporting lore.

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Probably, you know about the Madden curse

in in American football

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there is the rainbow Jersey curse.

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Did you guys ever hear anyone

that was wearing the rainbow stripes

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talk about it in the peloton?

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Is it a thing

that exists in the pro peloton?

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I don't remember

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guys thinking about it,

but it definitely happened.

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You know, there would be a world champion

that would be in a grupetto with us.

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You know,

he wasn't riding at that same level.

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I think that's kind of natural

when you have such a peak

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that maybe you kind of overcook it

a little bit in the next year,

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you're not great, but you do have the most

recognizable jersey in the peloton.

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So every single TV camera is on you.

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Every single fan's eyeballs are directed

directly at you.

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And and that's that's a pressure.

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And you got to get that monkey

off your back right away,

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because the longer you go,

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the more lower is going to build up

behind that, that curse.

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And, you know, the more pressure

you're going to have and ultimately

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the more difficult difficulty you're going

to have getting that first win.

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But it just seems like,

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get that first win out of the way

so that people stop talking about it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And very few have done it as quickly

as for it's

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not even 2025

and he's already got one from one.

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So yeah, well done of him.

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Liz Bernstein sent us a message

and she said,

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I do some local running and bike races.

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I always get a little nervous

at the start.

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The pros get nervous,

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especially since it's more dangerous

and there's a lot more on the line.

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And do those nerves go away after time?

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So, you know, when do you feel nervous

as a pro and do you learn to deal with it?

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I think in my

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case I was the most nervous

when we had to big team plan,

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when everything had to fall in line,

like whatever I had to cover had to do

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breakaways, I had to jump in a break,

then wait on the next climb

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Fabian Cancellara

would lead them up to me.

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Then we would together

take over and Andy Schleck and Frankie

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and Carlos Sastre would be there

and Íñigo Cuesta does a pull and.

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I was nervous about these days because

there was so many moving bits and pieces.

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They all had to come together.

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Plus there's not a 20 teams.

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They have a different plan

they want to put into action.

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That's when I felt the most,

pressure on my on my shoulders.

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A normal race is just a race.

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After a while it's a job

and you have to is positive energy.

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Just positive excitement?

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But you're not frightened.

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You're not nervous

only at some special occasions.

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I mean, don't forget,

I did probably:

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as a junior, as a

as a as a kid, as an amateur.

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So of course there's time

to get used to the pressure feeling.

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But yes, even in my last years eternal

occasions, I still had this nervousness.

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Nerves per se, I think.

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I think you're only nervous

when you have an expectation on yourself.

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And that's adrenaline. That's motivation.

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The problem is when you're on

the start line and you're not nervous.

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I mean,

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I would take two espressos to try to,

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you know, amp myself up

and then basically be falling,

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falling asleep on the start line

a couple times for,

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for a couple of years, you know,

because there was no expectation.

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I knew I wasn't good.

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And I'm like, you know, just

it was drudgery.

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Right.

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So I think nerves are a good thing

as long as you can control them.

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And that means that you're expecting

something out of yourself that day.

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And that's a good thing.

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Did you ever have a feeling

where the nerves overcame

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you and you were so nervous

you did the wrong thing because you're

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you were thinking about doing something

wrong or making a mistake?

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Yes. With that many

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races and like moments,

we have to take decisions. Yep.

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You can do you can do mistakes.

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I had a race where...

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the Tour du Haut Var ,

where I was the leader for the team,

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and I was just trying to be too perfect

to make everything so correctly

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that I basically,

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I missed the entire race

because I was just trying to be too smart

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and saving it for that one punchy attack

And it I just messed it up.

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Phwoar, 2002 or whatever the year was.

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So yeah, that was a clear example

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where I didn't have gotten

the better of me.

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Well, I was going to say no,

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but I realize that my last tour de France

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was the crash in the time trial,

and I crashed on basically

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the second turn of the time trial,

so I thought I was dialed in.

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I thought I was absolutely ready

to to have a ripper of a ride.

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But looking back at it

now, that that may have been nerves,

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because who crashes in the second turn

of a of a time trial in the tour de France

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and ends up in an ambulance

without having some sort of nerve issue.

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But, I guess I kind of deleted

that out of my mind until just now.

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Sorry for dredging that one up.

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Now, this is another great name.

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Night sweats.

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No first name. I presume

that's not their legal name.

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But they ask, what are things

that cyclists do that are a waste of time?

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And the example they gave is

quite interesting, like ingesting ketones.

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And what do they skip or not

that could be useful.

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So it's things that cyclists do

or don't do that are useless and useful.

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And what should they do?

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Well, I think that anything that you do

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that makes you feel more confident,

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more relaxed, stronger is not a waste.

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I mean, I've seen many, many things.

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I've done many, many things

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where I look back and say,

oh man, that was just a waste of time.

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But I don't think there's anything,

especially a product

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that across

the board is is a waste of time.

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I've definitely done some crazy things.

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I think the craziest thing ever, which was

absolutely a waste of time, was Jensie.

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Do you remember those power cranks

that you had to keep perfect,

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power around the whole 360 degree

part of the pedal stroke?

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And if you didn't, they just dropped

em like that.

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That was a waste of time, because it's

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it was

trying to improve your pedal stroke.

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And if you lapsed in concentration

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for a second, you would basically crash.

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So of all the crazy products that I tried,

that was probably the one.

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To me, that was the waste of time.

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Everything else I think has its place.

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I mean, but the most important thing

that I think riders,

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forget to do or do only in the off season

and then kind of let it slide during

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the season, is is just basic

core stability, strength work.

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I wish the years that I did that

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when we were at CSC in 2004 and 2005,

in the beginning of:

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I just felt better, I rode better,

I seemed to breathe better.

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And then when I kind of got

a little bit complacent

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and lazy in the middle of 2006, 2007.

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And then when I retired in 2008,

I wasn't doing that.

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So, that that's a big one for me.

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And, to our listeners and viewers,

Bobby and me,

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we were roommates for very long time,

and we were so opposite.

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Bobby was doing the foam rolling,,

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the stretching the core muscles

and reading books.

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How do I become a better speaker?

How do I become a better bike? Right?

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How do you become a better human being?

And so on.

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And I was just laying on my bed

doing nothing at all but playing Gameboy,

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building up empires on my Gameboy games,

or catching Pokemon in my Gameboy.

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but weare both good riders

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because we believed in our strategy,

Bobby needed all that extra training,

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extra exercises,

the extra stretching that made him good.

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I was just no erase and rewind.

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The bike is done the is done

get my gameboy, get my book out.

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So whatever floats

your boat is good for you.

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But I have to say,

maybe shame on me a little bit.

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I should have done more stretching.

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I was did that.

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I think I could have been quite

a few percent better

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with more stretching core muscle training

maybe as well.

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But stretching particular was always my

my weak spot.

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So I think how many years

that took off your career?

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Jensie yeah, you could have gone on to 50.

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Correct.

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I won't be still racing Pogacar

these days.

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Absolutely. So we are stretching.

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I think it's important

for muscle training. Like Bobby said.

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I would really highly recommend

that to any

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ambitious bike rider today.

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I have one more thing

that I think would have made

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a bit of a difference as well.

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So when we get into the hotel rooms,

we have our suitcases and then two big

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bottles of water like liter and a half

bottles of water on the nightstand, right?

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So I would constantly be taking little

sips throughout the night by the end.

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By the by, after dinner time to go to bed,

I'd have to go out into the hallway

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and get another liter and a half bottle,

which I would have had finished

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by the time

that we went to the bus in the morning.

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And I always looked over there

and that big bottle of water

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still had the seal on it most of the time,

because Jen's just didn't drink.

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I didn't understand, I'm over there

like slurping down three liters of water

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and he may crack it open,

you know, to, to get the,

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the toothpaste, taste out of his mouth.

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But but he never drank anything.

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How did you manage that?

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I can't go on any bike ride

without drinking water.

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You were doing the tour de France,

and you just sort of know that that's

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that's weakness, right?

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I kept it very simple.

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Maybe it was not the perfect way, but it,

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it helped me for for a long time, though,

but and, maybe.

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Okay, here's here's my one tip.

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We had an osteopath Ola Ekblad

I believe, from Denmark.

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And I swear by everything.

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What is important to me

Ola was the closest to make a dead person

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walking again.

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Ola was an absolute out of your mind.

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Unimaginable legend.

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And I was really skeptical

because I believe in school science.

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I believe in surgery and in medicine.

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Things I can see and touch.

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And then Ola comes in,

and he had this really deep voice.

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Oh I can feel

your energy is blocked and bloody hell

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he really made me better

and he gave me this little breathing.

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Exercise. Okay.

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Whenever you feel stressed

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or you want to calm down

or you want to prepare an attack

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or an important meeting,

or you want to go back to bed,

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have five really deep

breathes into your belly.

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Not like this,

but in your belly, in with your nose. And,

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like powerful breathing out with your,

with your mouth.

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And I still do that today when I feel

stressed or it's not every day,

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but when every now and then it's.

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Yep, I remember all I'm

going to do five times deep breathing.

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And it helps you to calm down,

to relax, to refocus as well.

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Let's just say, because all the CSC guys

had that deep breathing exercise.

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And let's just say

when you're walking down the hallway

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and you hear this, this

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animal, I'll try to do it.

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[QUESTIONABLE BREATHING SOUND] Exactly.

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That's how it is exactly.

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You hear all the guys in the room doing

that?

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It is like,

yeah, it'll turn some heads for sure, but,

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But wasn't that also some stress

breathing out that some

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someone was, you know, were steering

clear of if they just had them doing that?

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Oh, yeah.

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It there was rumors

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about what was going on in the rooms

when those noises were coming out of that.

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Put it that way.

384

:

Okay.

385

:

Final question for this week and this is

from I'm going to get this name wrong.

386

:

So apologies, I think it's Jori Junghans,

and he's suggested something quite good.

387

:

This is about innovation.

388

:

He says, can you imagine

389

:

a pursuit style stage for a star

that's kind of a short,

390

:

mountainous time trial

where slipstream wouldn't be so powerful?

391

:

It's done in Nordic combined and biathlon.

392

:

So the leader of the race

would start first,

393

:

and whoever finishes first

is the new leader.

394

:

So you'd go off in intervals

based on how far behind you are.

395

:

And the guy at the top wins the race.

396

:

I'm not talking about a Grand Tour level,

but just to try it out

397

:

and change up the

the game for the athletes and viewers

398

:

What do you think

about that as a proposal?

399

:

I like that, yeah.

400

:

Absolute cool.

401

:

That's kind of cool.

402

:

I mean like you said,

we see it in Nordic racing.

403

:

He, he said it's the pursuit

but it's almost like a handicap.

404

:

Right.

405

:

So if you're leading you get a 22nd start

over second place and so on and so forth.

406

:

I think that would be pretty cool.

407

:

Obviously, you know, drafting even uphill,

408

:

it would be hard to start,

409

:

you know, but like we see it in

Nordic racing all the time.

410

:

There's just guys going off

ping, ping, ping, ping, ping and whoever

411

:

whoever wins, wins.

So I kind of like that idea.

412

:

I mean, we've done some crazy things

in the sport, you know, a team time trial

413

:

which turns into an individual time trial

at the end, like you're working together

414

:

and then,

you know, basically a lead out for the guy

415

:

and that guy actually wins,

not the team itself.

416

:

So even though it was a team time trial,

it was an individual stage.

417

:

So, you know,

418

:

why not?

419

:

I mean, we see some crazy things and

you know, we want TV viewership to go up.

420

:

We want people to be more interested

in the sport.

421

:

I'm, I'm for something like that.

422

:

Yeah. Me too. Absolutely.

423

:

We could even go more spectacular.

424

:

Have all of them starting, on their bike

425

:

in a starting machine,

like on the track at a position

426

:

they would have with the times,

referred into distance.

427

:

So we have a drone flight,

and the last of GC stands at the kilometer

428

:

zero sign, and Pogacar would be like 780m

further

429

:

down the road in his starting regime,

waiting for his start.

430

:

They all get released at the same time

because, you know,

431

:

we have the distance in not times

but the distance.

432

:

So and then whoever crosses the line

in whatever

433

:

five miles down the road, we have crosses

that line first is the winner.

434

:

That would be so cool.

435

:

It would need some try and era

to come up with

436

:

how many points and times refer

to how many meters of a handicap,

437

:

because you still want to

have good riders to win, but

438

:

you know, so.

439

:

But yeah,

that would be absolutely fantastic.

440

:

I mean, it reminded me of the

the short lived hammer series.

441

:

I don't know if you remember that

where it was sort of points and they did a

442

:

they did a sort of team time trial pursuit

thing to end where it basically ended up

443

:

with two teams of like nine

racing each other in full gear.

444

:

But I'm just sitting here saying,

you guys are enthusiastic about this.

445

:

Think of all the guys you know

that are retired that now run races.

446

:

I think we try and get this

on the calendar for next year.

447

:

We get the turn.

448

:

We've put the news out.

449

:

Absolutely.

450

:

But yeah, that's,

another episode of the mailbag wrapped up.

451

:

If you want to send us your messages,

just message, well, any of us,

452

:

or you can send us a message

on, shocked or off any of our accounts,

453

:

or you can just drop it

into, OddTandem@shockedgiraffe.com.

454

:

I forgot the email address

for a second there.

455

:

And we'll get your messages

read out in next month's episode.

456

:

But thank you to everyone

who's dropped this message.

457

:

Thanks to everyone who's listening.

458

:

And of course, thank you

to everyone who subscribed to our Patreon.

459

:

Particularly the person who is not me,

who is also called Mark Payne.

460

:

It was very weird getting an email to say

thank you, Mark Payne for subscribing.

461

:

I, you know, brilliant.

462

:

But yeah, if you want to keep listening

to the podcast,

463

:

just subscribe below

and you can, listen to the next one.

464

:

Till then, can can I say one special thing

to one of our Patreon

465

:

members, Philip Shama?

466

:

Philip had a terrible bike crash.

467

:

He just texted me, the other day.

468

:

He was in ICU for 34 days.

469

:

He has all but

470

:

two or maybe four ribs plated.

471

:

So his entire I think we have 26 ribs.

472

:

24 of them are actually are 22 of them

are actually plated.

473

:

So I just wanted to give a special

shout out to to Philip.

474

:

Glad to hear that you're on the comeback

trail.

475

:

You're off of the supplemental oxygen

breathing machine.

476

:

You're going to be heading

to the normal ward instead of the ICU.

477

:

So we just wanted to give you

a special shout out, Philip.

478

:

And, all the best in your recovery.

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.