Brennan Wertz: US gravel champ on tackling the World Tour riders..

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I think really just a matter of time

before teams start

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to get more and more involved and tactics,

start to play more and more on the road.

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Hello and welcome back

to another edition of The Odd Tandem.

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Our guest today started off as a rower

in Northern California, became interested

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in gravel racing and recently

became the US national gravel champion.

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Jens Brennan Wertz, what did you think

about that talk that we had just now?

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It was just fantastic.

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I loved the entire gravel scene,

the adventure spirit of it,

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and I was honored

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to be actually able to participate

once in Unbound.

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Back then it was still called, Dirty Kanza

and here's my story.

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Great start.

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It all went well until about 150-160 miles

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into it,

all my energy levels went to zero.

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I was like a car.

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When you have no petrol, every red light

is just blinking and I'm like,

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okay, I either fall apart

or I saw this tree at the horizon.

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The only tree

I probably saw the entire day in Kansas.

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I'm like, I'm just going to lay down

in the shade of the tree

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and have a 15 minute power nap

and so I did.

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So I went for a sleep in Unbound,

hopefully, our guest

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didn't have to do that yet.

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No, I think, without, spoiling

some of the nuggets that he dropped on us,

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you made, a couple couple other

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crucial mistakes with your fueling

that Brennan all square away a little bit.

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So please sit back, relax, and enjoy

our great conversation with Brennan Wertz

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Brennan Wertz, welcome to the Odd Tandem.

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Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

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Yeah, man. I mean, we had to get you on.

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I mean, the gravel season

is kind of winding down, but, you know,

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you won the national championship

gravel title this year back in.

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What was that?

I believe September in Nebraska.

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How is life in the Stars and Stripes

treating you so far?

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It's been good.

Yeah, it's been super good.

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Really?

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Still almost a little bit surreal.

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But at the same time, yeah.

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Loving every moment of it.

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It's been a huge honor.

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And I would say going into this year,

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that was my

my biggest target for the year.

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So, we'll probably get into this

in a bit,

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but my preparation for the race

was far from ideal.

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But, we did still kind of build the year

around it with that being a main target.

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So, yeah, it feels it feels nice to be

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at the end of the season now and look back

and feel like the year was a success.

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And the biggest goal of all of them

was checked off.

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So yeah, incredibly happy and honored

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for, for me

as a foreigner, I was always, impressed

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or surprised how Americans could design

their national champion jersey.

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Within certain parameters.

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Like did

the German jersey is always the same.

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It's plain white and got the, the, you

know, the colored stripes and that's it.

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Did you had a word to say

about your own jersey

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or it's still in the making,

or how does it look?

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How will it look?

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Yeah, I would say we were in kind of with

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more or less the kind of,

let's say standard.

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I mean, the,

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it's got the red stripe, red and white

stripes on sort of the lower midsection.

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And then the top part of the shoulders

is blue with, with the white stars.

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But they diverted a little bit.

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My clothing sponsor, Q 65,

they kind of shifted away from

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the normal kind

of horizontal lines and squared off,

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and they had a bit of a chevron

on the front.

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So it has a little bit of like a Superman

look to it.

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But yeah, they gave me a couple options.

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The cool thing with with gravel

is because it's not so heavily

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regulated by the UCI, it's not, you know,

the jersey design is also not regulated,

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like if you're racing on the road

or another UCI discipline.

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They have quite a bit of say

in what that jersey actually looks like.

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But for gravel, I know

you can be a little bit more abstract

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with it and creative like Keegan's

last year was super abstract.

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But for me,

I wanted it to look a little bit

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more kind of recognisable,

straightforward.

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And really.

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Yeah, really

honor it and go kind of all out.

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You got to go all out with the Stars

and Stripes, baby.

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But, you know, you slipped away

from a pretty big group of hitters,

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including the aforementioned

Keegan Swenson.

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Talk us through that final,

because you guys all were there,

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you know, in the last few weeks.

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And it kind of takes that one person

to take the initiative,

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which turned out to be you.

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But talk us through what was going through

your mind in that final of the gravel?

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Yeah.

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At first we

we came through this kind of little,

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like riverrun or like riverbed

that was really dusty and dry and rutted

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and I was

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already towards the back of the group

going into that, because Keegan and Colby

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Simmons had attacked

on the final little rise going into it

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and strung the group out.

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I had anticipated the attack,

so I was right at the front of the group

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so that I could kind of sat back

and not get fully distance from the group.

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But I came into this little riverbed

section that was the final gravel section,

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a bit on the back foot

and towards the back of the group.

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And most of the guys in

the group were running mountain

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bike tires, and I went for like a full on

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speed set up.

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I had slick tires 44mm for road

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groupset like road gearing to buy,

basically fully optimized

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for the last 1.5-2km of the course,

which were all pavement.

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So we came out of the cemetery

and because of my,

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my set up and taking a kind of

conservative lead because I didn't

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want to crash in the last two K coming

through this little like riverbed section,

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I had a little bit of a gap

to the guys in front.

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So the eight or so guys that were up

the road,

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and I came out of the cemetery

that we kind of,

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we went through the riverbed

around the back of the cemetery.

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That was all dirt.

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And then we got on to the pavement

and there we had. Yeah, 2km to the finish,

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and I saw

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them in the distance and was just kind of

kicking myself like, shit.

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I think I just let the group get away.

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Like I took that too conservatively.

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And now I might not even be able

to be a factor here in the sprint.

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And I quickly kind of

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started to panic and was really pushing

to come back to the group.

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But then I sort of saw them all

looking at each other and hesitating, and

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had sort of sensed

it was very tactical all day, very cagey,

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lots of looking around at each other.

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And so as I was approaching,

I realised, actually,

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I think I'm approaching too fast

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and I'm going to come back

and I'll slot back into the group,

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but then it'll just be a ten person

bunch sprint.

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And at that point I'm just almost rolling,

rolling the dice and just seeing

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how my chances are on the sprint.

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But I didn't have

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I did not have very good legs that day,

so I did not trust myself

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to really be like, okay, I couldn't

go into the sprint with full confidence,

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like I will win this sprint.

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I did not have that level of confidence.

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So as I was approaching,

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I actually eased off for a moment

because I saw somebody else was attacking.

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And so as that other rider,

I think it was Cobe Freeburn

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as he was attacking

and then getting brought back.

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The group

then swelled sideways across the road.

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Everyone was looking at each other

and that's when I came by with full speed.

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And it was coming by from far enough

behind that they didn't.

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No one really knew that I was there

or saw me coming with that kind of speed.

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And I knew that if I could get around

them and I could keep the speed,

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the differential or the, you know, the,

the delta in speed

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was way too high where

no one would be able to get onto my wheel.

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And then at that point

with like a km from the finish,

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on a false flat

tailwind paved road into the finish

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with my setup, with my strengths,

with my size, with everything, I knew that

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it would be very,

very difficult for them to claw that back.

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So yeah, that was kind of the

that was how it played out.

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I, I put in a hard 10 or 15 seconds

with my head down, looked over my shoulder

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and saw them all kind of spread

across the road looking at each other.

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And I honestly couldn't really believe it.

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And then just my legs were screaming.

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Everything was screaming,

but I just put my head down.

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Came came to the finish.

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It was a 90 degree corner

with about 150m to go.

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Went around the corner,

looked over my shoulder.

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No one was there.

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And had time to celebrate.

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So it was pretty, pretty epic.

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Pretty, surreal.

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And yeah, just still,

still kind of sinking in, to be honest.

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You know, the way you describe it,

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it sounds like the Book of Cycling page

one tactics.

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That's how you do it. Perfect.

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I mean, even you know

that you had to cleverness to win this.

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You know,

the biggest national title is just there.

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And yet the quickness to slow down,

wait for them to neutralize each other

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and then hit him. Absolutely. Perfect.

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Before we go closer or further into

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how did you get that,

your preparation and so on.

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And we have a series of quickfire

questions.

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Alrighty.

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Okay.

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So winning Unbound or Gravel Worlds,

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what will it be?

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That's a really hard

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one for me, to be honest.

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I, I don't know, I think Unbound,

I think Unbound.

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I've just been doing Unbound for so long.

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I've been coming back to it so many times.

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It's kicked my butt so many times.

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And it's such a legendary, iconic race

and it's just getting harder and harder

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to win.

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And the kind of, let's say, value of it

is just continuing to rise each year.

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So yeah, I would say, I'd say Unbound.

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What is your favorite post-race meal?

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Pulled pork burger or spare ribs?

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I love pulled pork.

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Okay. Me too.

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After a race that's pretty hard to beat.

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Your favorite place to stay for the race?

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The camping car.

Right at the start and finish.

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Or a comfy hotel. But further away?

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Probably the hotel

a little bit further away.

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I usually like to get a decent little warm

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up in anyway, so if I have to ride 10

or 20 K to the start line,

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to get a little warm up

in, that's that's usually not a problem.

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To our listeners and viewers,

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he talked about a ten, 20km

warm up for a 200 mile race.

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Just let that sink in,

you know, warming up for ten hours, race.

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Okay. Last question.

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Best country

for gravel ridng in your opinion?

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Also a really tough one.

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I would say some of my favorite gravel

riding that I have done.

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I mean, I think the US,

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the US has so much terrain

and you really have everything like

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from the mountains in Colorado

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to the coastal gravel here in California

to the rolling training Kansas.

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I mean, I think I'm biased,

but I would say the US,

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but my next favorite place or the

my favorite country I've traveled to

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and ridden

gravel in would probably be Switzerland.

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I've done some really, really insane

gravel riding in Switzerland,

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and it's just incredibly beautiful

with the Alps and these narrow

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little cow paths,

through the alpine meadows and stuff.

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It's pretty incredible.

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I kind of want to go back to what you said

about your setup.

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You know, you said that, okay.

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It was a very long race,

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but you chose a specific set up

for those final two kilometers.

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How much dissection of the course

and pre-riding of courses

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do you guys do these days in order

to determine what what setup you're using?

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Yeah, quite a lot.

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I mean,

I think the setup is such a key factor and

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you see that it's really people

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are operating on a bit of a spectrum

with in regards to setup.

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And it's shifted a lot in the last,

let's say three years

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since I've been doing

a lot of gravel racing.

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And I think this year

a big trend or big topic we saw a lot

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was mountain bike tires and just going

bigger and bigger and bigger.

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And I think like,

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you know, we just wrapped up

racing Big Sugar there on that course.

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Absolute no brainer.

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Like I think those courses like Big Sugar

and Unbound that are notorious

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for shredding tires, you really want to go

on that end of the spectrum.

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But I also

I also wanted to take a bit of a risk,

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and I didn't feel that the course,

nationals was so technical,

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or the sand pits that we went through

were so treacherous that

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I would

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be dropped in

them just due to the nature of the course.

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Like the course really suited me.

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There were never any super long

big climbs.

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It was kind of constantly rolling

and just the type of terrain

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where you have to be on the pedals

hard all day.

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And so I knew that

even if I did get gapped a little bit

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in certain sand sections, that

I would most likely be able to come back.

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And that was kind of the story of the day

was just like playing really defensive,

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being on the back foot and all of these

different sand pits and sand sections.

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But I knew where they were.

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I had pre-read in a bunch of the course,

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and it was the exact same course

as the year before where I had raced

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almost an identical setup

and was on the podium last year as well.

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So, the conditions were ever

so slightly different this year.

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A bit drier in sand year, but it wasn't

so dramatically different where I felt

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like I needed to make a huge shift in my,

in my setup going into it.

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And I knew and I knew that, for me,

if it came down to a sprint,

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I really wanted the setup that I had

and I kind of optimized for

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if I make it to the last two K,

I want to have the best possible setup

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to actually win the race

and not have the setup.

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That's just going to get me to the last

two K at the front of the race.

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Like it was kind of

a, you know, these one day races

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or like a championship race,

like I like a nationals.

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I mean last year for me

the podium was a was a good result.

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But really at the end of the day,

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the result that matters at these

races is the win.

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And so I really went all in for the win

and kind of went into it with a little bit

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more of a risky setup

than I normally would

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for something like a Grand Prix race

or something, where there's maybe points

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involved or where you're looking to like

a series overall or something like that.

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So, what exactly did you use?

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You said Slick Tires was a correct.

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Did I hear that correctly?

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So what pressure?

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What size?

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And double chainring or single chainring?

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When you said road setup, that would

normally be a double chain, right.

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Give us a little bit more tech info here,

please.

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Yeah.

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So I was riding, Rene Herse tires

and my tire sponsor,

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and they have a 44 millimeter wide

slick tire called the Snoqualmie Pass.

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So I was on that.

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I think I was like 35, 36 psi.

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And yeah, I was on, like a full Shimano

Dura-Ace groupset.

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Yeah.

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Actually,

I think this one know this on this bike,

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it was a mix of like Ultegra Dura-Ace and

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but effectively

the gear ratio was like: 5440

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chainrings

and then: 1134

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So it's pretty standard gearing for what

you'd see in any stage at the tour.

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You know, on most Shimano sponsored riders

road bikes at a World Tour road race.

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But Brennan, you're

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six foot five, which translates

to almost two meters tall.

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And how much do you weigh?

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A bit over 90, like 91, 92 kilos.

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Okay, 200 pounds.

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So. So let's just say

a lot of these guys that you're racing

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with are much smaller

and much lighter than you.

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Is this an advantage or disadvantage

in gravel racing, do you think?

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I think it depends.

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I mean, it depends a lot on the course.

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It's like

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again, if you look to the world tour,

you have guys that are built like me

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that are racing the sprint

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classics in a full sprint calendar

or maybe doing some stuff on the track,

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but they're never winning a stage,

a mountain top stage in the tour.

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And that's kind of how I look at it

for myself.

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Like, of course, like this

race at nationals is really ideal for me,

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and my size and corresponding

power is actually an advantage.

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But then to go to race like Leadville

or Crusher

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in the year where it's

kind of high altitude climbing fest.

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Yeah, there.

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I'm struggling a little bit

more than someone like Keegan.

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So I know last year when I finished

the race and was on the podium,

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I called my coach pretty much immediately

after because I knew that the nationals

314

: 00:16:33

would be on the same course the next year,

315

: 00:16:35

and I told him straight away

I was like, look, man, I think, you

316

: 00:16:38

know, Keegan is somebody that I don't have

a whole lot of opportunities to beat.

317

: 00:16:41

I have tons and tons of respect for him.

318

: 00:16:43

But on this course next year,

I think I can beat him like

319

: 00:16:47

just last last year at the race,

320

: 00:16:50

he beat us not because he was necessarily

stronger or fitter.

321

: 00:16:53

He just played like a super smart tactical

move in the final.

322

: 00:16:56

But I saw like a kind of glimmer of hope

323

: 00:17:00

there that I could beat him there

on that course.

324

: 00:17:02

And that was in part due to my size

and that being an advantage

325

: 00:17:06

for me on that course.

326

: 00:17:08

So would you feel

327

: 00:17:09

happier on a 50 mile gravel race or a 200

mike gravel race or you.

328

: 00:17:15

Yeah, I don't care.

329

: 00:17:16

I just take it as it comes.

330

: 00:17:18

I like to kind of take it as it comes.

331

: 00:17:20

I mean, I've done a few UCI Gravel World

Series races this year that have been

332

: 00:17:24

a little bit shorter, but

I think the longer stuff suits me better.

333

: 00:17:28

I think the kind of Unbound type effort

these just long, all day

334

: 00:17:33

diesel grinds

that, that definitely suits me better.

335

: 00:17:36

They're kind of really,

really sharp accelerations.

336

: 00:17:40

The super punchy effort

is I'm less suited to that.

337

: 00:17:44

And I would say

I've built my training over

338

: 00:17:46

the last three years

much more in the direction of an Unbound

339

: 00:17:49

kind of effort than something

in the sort of 50 mile range.

340

: 00:17:52

It's much punchier.

341

: 00:17:54

Well, let's talk about that

training a little bit, proportionately

342

: 00:17:57

speaking, right now,

what percent of the time

343

: 00:18:00

do you actually spend on your gravel bike

and what percent

344

: 00:18:03

do you actually spend training

for gravel racing on your road bike?

345

: 00:18:08

I would say

346

: 00:18:10

maybe 40% gravel, 60% road this year.

347

: 00:18:14

Last year I did the Lifetime Grand Prix,

348

: 00:18:15

and so I had the mountain

bike kind of mixed into that as well.

349

: 00:18:18

But this year I was focusing

on, fully on a kind of drop bar calendar.

350

: 00:18:23

So, but yeah, I would say 40,

60 something, something kind of like that.

351

: 00:18:29

I do a lot of riding on the road

just because it's easier to do the efforts

352

: 00:18:32

I want to do. It opens up more terrain.

353

: 00:18:34

And where I live,

the gravel is pretty rugged. So,

354

: 00:18:39

we don't really have dirt roads

that you would drive

355

: 00:18:42

a car on, like kind of the standard gravel

that we race in most races.

356

: 00:18:46

So I have to be a little bit

more selective

357

: 00:18:48

with when I'm riding my gravel bike,

358

: 00:18:50

just because of the terrain

that's available to me and what it

359

: 00:18:53

what it kind of requires

from an effort perspective.

360

: 00:18:58

And,

361

: 00:19:00

like back in our days, on my days,

you would like,

362

: 00:19:02

let's say you have a bike race on Sunday,

then do week before the last weekend

363

: 00:19:08

if you have to time for it,

you would try to cover almost

364

: 00:19:11

the race distance to prepare your body

the Sunday before the next race Sunday.

365

: 00:19:16

If that's something

you guys do, these days.

366

: 00:19:19

And can you ride ten hours on Sunday

367

: 00:19:22

to prepare for Unbound

and then recover and race ten hours again?

368

: 00:19:26

Or is that just a stupid question?

369

: 00:19:28

No. I mean, for Unbound specifically,

I would say

370

: 00:19:31

the longest training that I would do

would still be maybe 8 or 9 hours.

371

: 00:19:35

I don't think

I would ever really get to ten hours.

372

: 00:19:37

I mean, I did this summer,

I did some bike packing, and I did,

373

: 00:19:41

I think, two days that were around

ten hours, but that was not specifically

374

: 00:19:45

prepping for anything.

375

: 00:19:46

That was just

376

: 00:19:47

I was kind of

377

: 00:19:48

in the middle of a big training period

and was just having some fun on my bike,

378

: 00:19:52

riding through Switzerland,

through the Alps.

379

: 00:19:56

But no, I mean, I think

380

: 00:19:58

usually this year

I've done a lot of like 4 or 5 hour rides

381

: 00:20:02

on the Wednesday before, like Wednesday

or Thursday, depending on

382

: 00:20:06

whether or not

the race is Saturday or Sunday.

383

: 00:20:08

But yeah, just a few days out

doing still a pretty solid endurance ride,

384

: 00:20:12

getting on the bike for 4 or 5 hours.

385

: 00:20:16

I found that for me

that that's worked pretty well and that I,

386

: 00:20:19

I like how that kind of leaves me

going into the, the race weekend

387

: 00:20:23

and also with the recon and stuff.

388

: 00:20:25

Like you mentioned, Bobby, it's

also you have to put the time in to see

389

: 00:20:29

as much of the course as you can, and

that really helps us inform our decisions

390

: 00:20:33

for tires and wheels and pressure

and gearing and all that kind of stuff.

391

: 00:20:36

So, that's been for me

a pretty good formula this year

392

: 00:20:40

where I've been able to do a long ride,

like usually the day or two

393

: 00:20:43

after I arrive,

you know, in a location for a race,

394

: 00:20:46

then I'll get to scope out

as much of the course as possible.

395

: 00:20:49

That way.

396

: 00:20:51

Brennan I've been, you

know, following you for a couple years,

397

: 00:20:53

but it seems like this year, you

you raced a lot more.

398

: 00:20:58

Was that just that you

you had more of a social media presence,

399

: 00:21:01

or did you feel that

400

: 00:21:02

your calendar expanded a lot more

this year than in the years past?

401

: 00:21:06

I would say this year

I did a lot more travel,

402

: 00:21:10

probably in total than I have in years

past.

403

: 00:21:12

I spent more time racing in Europe.

404

: 00:21:14

This year I think I did three trips

to Europe for races, or for race blocks.

405

: 00:21:20

And I was kind of on the move

a little bit more, but,

406

: 00:21:23

like last year,

I think I spent a little bit

407

: 00:21:26

more time focusing on the lifetime

Grand Prix events.

408

: 00:21:29

And like before Leadville,

I spent a month in the mountains of Utah

409

: 00:21:32

preparing for that

410

: 00:21:33

and doing altitude training,

and I didn't do as much of that this year.

411

: 00:21:38

I didn't have as many kind of specific

blocks of training for one key race,

412

: 00:21:42

which is something

I think for next year, I'm going to try

413

: 00:21:46

to shift a little bit

more in the direction of preparing

414

: 00:21:50

with more focus on each individual race

and doing fewer races overall.

415

: 00:21:54

But yeah, I,

I don't know the exact number of race days

416

: 00:21:57

I'll have to go back and look,

but it definitely was a lot this year.

417

: 00:22:00

It was a lot of a lot of racing.

418

: 00:22:02

And so since

419

: 00:22:04

your country is a huge, huge

420

: 00:22:07

country,

so biggest were a country in the world,

421

: 00:22:10

if you traveled from Nebraska

back home to California or

422

: 00:22:15

see all the classics or,

you know, Kansas Unbound,

423

: 00:22:20

how do you travel?

424

: 00:22:21

Like an endless road trip

with your mates in a camping car

425

: 00:22:25

and all your gear stuff

behind in a camper?

426

: 00:22:27

Or you take flights?

427

: 00:22:28

How do I have to imagine it as an outsider

to this, to the gravel world?

428

: 00:22:33

Yeah, most of it.

429

: 00:22:35

This year I've, I did with the airplane.

430

: 00:22:37

In the past,

431

: 00:22:39

the past two years, I've usually done

at least 1 or 2 big road trip blocks

432

: 00:22:44

where I've gone to Colorado

and Utah for altitude training and,

433

: 00:22:49

do it as a big road trip

and string together

434

: 00:22:52

maybe 4 to 8 weeks of racing

and training all together.

435

: 00:22:56

And that's that's a good way to do it,

436

: 00:22:58

because then I can bring more equipment,

more spare tires, more bike.

437

: 00:23:02

But I don't have any sort of

438

: 00:23:05

like big sprinter van or something

that, that a lot of guys have.

439

: 00:23:08

I just go with a normal car and

have done it like that the last two years.

440

: 00:23:14

But yeah, this year

it was more doing it with the airplane,

441

: 00:23:18

trying to optimize the flights,

442

: 00:23:19

trying to figure out like,

okay, is there an airport that's nearby

443

: 00:23:23

that I can take a direct flight to

and then and then do the drive

444

: 00:23:26

in and or get a rental car,

like always kind of figuring that out.

445

: 00:23:28

But, yeah.

446

: 00:23:31

And then especially for the stuff

over in Europe, always, you know, the

447

: 00:23:34

flying over there

448

: 00:23:36

and, you know, we've had

449

: 00:23:37

some gravel racers

on the podcast in the past, explain

450

: 00:23:42

how you just explain the multiple trips

to Europe all over the U.S..

451

: 00:23:45

How do you pay for all this?

452

: 00:23:47

Is are you are your sponsors 100%

453

: 00:23:51

footing the bill for this,

or does it kind of depend on you,

454

: 00:23:56

you know, getting some prize money,

in order to pay the bills?

455

: 00:24:00

Yeah, I would say the,

the prize money this year,

456

: 00:24:04

like I got some prize money at nationals

and and some stuff like that.

457

: 00:24:07

If you bonuses for different results

that definitely really helps.

458

: 00:24:12

But I would say I try to always

look at that as bonus and don't factor

459

: 00:24:16

that into the budget.

460

: 00:24:17

But the way it works for me

is I have, multiple sponsors

461

: 00:24:23

and they provide me

462

: 00:24:23

a kind of combination of equipment

and then also financial support,

463

: 00:24:27

and they basically pay that

in sort of a lump sum.

464

: 00:24:30

And then I'm on my own to manage it all.

465

: 00:24:33

So I'm

then booking all the flights myself,

466

: 00:24:35

booking early accommodation,

trying to be economical

467

: 00:24:38

and in all of that and find accommodation

that's a good value.

468

: 00:24:42

Or maybe if I can stay with some friends

somewhere and save some money doing that,

469

: 00:24:46

or you know, like I was explaining,

trying to find which airport to fly into,

470

: 00:24:52

maybe there's an airport

471

: 00:24:53

that's an hour further away by car,

but it's a couple hundred bucks cheaper

472

: 00:24:57

and the rental car is cheaper, you know,

kind of always looking at all of that.

473

: 00:25:00

I would say when people ask me

what my job is or like what

474

: 00:25:04

what, the day to day looks like,

I would say that's the biggest thing

475

: 00:25:08

that people overlook

is like the amount of time spent

476

: 00:25:11

just trying to optimize

for cost effectiveness

477

: 00:25:15

and looking at different flight options,

trying to find Airbnbs.

478

: 00:25:18

I mean, now, like I was booking Airbnbs

already for Unbound next year because it's

479

: 00:25:24

it books out so fast and everything's

so expensive and you have to find a good,

480

: 00:25:28

you know, a good set up.

481

: 00:25:29

So yeah, that's

that's usually how it works.

482

: 00:25:32

I manage all that myself.

483

: 00:25:34

It's definitely challenging.

484

: 00:25:35

But I've learned a ton doing it.

485

: 00:25:37

And it's it's also,

I think, a really important

486

: 00:25:40

part of the recipe for success in gravel

is you have to look at the bigger picture,

487

: 00:25:44

and you have to be able to manage

488

: 00:25:45

all of these different things

because it's not just,

489

: 00:25:47

you know, a part of a team structure

where they have a full staff

490

: 00:25:51

to take care of all of that for you,

and you just have to show up

491

: 00:25:53

fit and ready to race.

492

: 00:25:55

There's a whole lot more

to get to the actual start on.

493

: 00:25:58

So you probably already answered

at least half of my next question.

494

: 00:26:03

You are Brennan

and the Brennan, team there’s

495

: 00:26:05

no 20 guys around your 15

or even five guys around you.

496

: 00:26:09

You do it all yourself.

497

: 00:26:10

And that leads to the next question.

498

: 00:26:13

When I had the honor to do Unbound,

it was called

499

: 00:26:16

still called,

Dirty Kanza, maybe: 2016

500

: 00:26:21

It was the first time where

501

: 00:26:23

basically people talk behind their hand

as if that would have been

502

: 00:26:26

an an outrageous sin he and he and her

are going to bring a team

503

: 00:26:31

to going to race together,

and it was just unheard of.

504

: 00:26:34

It was almost like a philosophical

question.

505

: 00:26:38

Teamwork or not, in gravel.

506

: 00:26:40

But since gravel is becoming

so popular, it's becoming, how do you see

507

: 00:26:46

more important to have results

and not just to be part of it?

508

: 00:26:50

I feel from an outside look,

509

: 00:26:53

you you've

you have a constant uphill, uphill battle.

510

: 00:26:57

I mean, if there's 4 or 5 team members

racing together or two guys

511

: 00:27:01

against you, that limits your chances.

512

: 00:27:04

Do you have a thought about that?

513

: 00:27:06

What is your point of view on that

and what are your tactics against it?

514

: 00:27:12

Yeah. that’s

too many questions? I'm sorry.

515

: 00:27:13

No, I think it's I, I've always kind of

516

: 00:27:17

had the approach that it's really

a matter of time before we see that.

517

: 00:27:20

And we already have started to see that.

518

: 00:27:22

I think doing more of these UCI

Gravel World Series

519

: 00:27:25

events this year over in Europe

really opened my eyes to that.

520

: 00:27:28

There's more team structures

that are already existing in Europe.

521

: 00:27:33

We saw Matej Mohoric come this year with,

I think, three

522

: 00:27:36

other teammates of his from,

the Bahrain victorious team.

523

: 00:27:40

So they were there.

524

: 00:27:41

Yeah.

525

: 00:27:43

I mean, it's it's the next logical step.

526

: 00:27:46

I think as it gets more professional

527

: 00:27:48

and more, there's more interest

and more prize money, it'll be,

528

: 00:27:52

I think, really just a matter of time

before teams start

529

: 00:27:55

to get more and more involved in tactics,

start to play more and more of a role.

530

: 00:27:59

I think right now

it's just kind of a more of a matter

531

: 00:28:03

of like the business model,

like the business model right now

532

: 00:28:06

with the way that brands and athletes

are working together

533

: 00:28:08

in the way that the sponsorship

market is set up.

534

: 00:28:13

No one brand has really taken

535

: 00:28:15

on the investment

to really build an entire team.

536

: 00:28:19

Like I've thought lots about it.

537

: 00:28:21

I've looked at the numbers, I've kind of

talked to various friends of mine.

538

: 00:28:24

I mean, I've bounced all sorts of ideas

off the wall

539

: 00:28:26

about these different team structures

and what that would look like.

540

: 00:28:29

But at the end of the day, it's

just a completely different level

541

: 00:28:32

of financial investment

to bring 5 to 10 riders to a race

542

: 00:28:36

like Unbound and pay them to ride

in support of somebody else

543

: 00:28:40

instead of riding for themselves.

544

: 00:28:42

It's just a completely different structure

that has to be built.

545

: 00:28:45

And I yeah, like I said,

I think it's a matter of time.

546

: 00:28:47

But right now

in the US at least, no one has.

547

: 00:28:51

I would say super successfully

548

: 00:28:53

like fully taken that on and built

like a fully professional gravel team yet.

549

: 00:28:58

But I do think it's something

that we'll see.

550

: 00:29:00

in the not too distant future.

551

: 00:29:02

But but that brings up

an interesting point.

552

: 00:29:05

I mean, when I got introduced to gravel in

: 2018

553

: 00:29:11

I mean, just a few people took it

like uber serious.

554

: 00:29:13

But now it's been professionalised

555

: 00:29:16

almost to the point where

I can't really tell the difference between

556

: 00:29:20

professional road

racing and professional gravel racing.

557

: 00:29:26

Do you feel the same

558

: 00:29:27

and do you support that if if it is

559

: 00:29:31

getting that way?

560

: 00:29:32

I wouldn't say I have

particularly strong feelings about it.

561

: 00:29:35

I think for me, I always just try to.

562

: 00:29:36

I was fortunate

that I came into the sport in: 2021

563

: 00:29:40

and was kind of already

reading a lot about it

564

: 00:29:42

and interested in it

and like: 2018

565

: 00:29:46

sort of knew of this guy, Ted, Ted King,

who goes out and does

566

: 00:29:49

this crazy race called Dirty Kanza,

and they ride their bikes

567

: 00:29:52

through 200 miles of gravel,

like the sounds so crazy.

568

: 00:29:56

And so was always

kind of on my radar. And so,

569

: 00:29:59

I don't know,

570

: 00:30:00

I feel like I came in it

at a point where it was really

571

: 00:30:04

it still had a little bit more

of that kind of a the OG spirit of gravel.

572

: 00:30:08

So I try to,

573

: 00:30:11

I try to maintain a bit of that,

that ethos and that culture and that vibe.

574

: 00:30:16

But I also would say it's the

575

: 00:30:19

just like the team, the teams

and everything, like I just describe.

576

: 00:30:23

I think this professionalisation

is also inevitable, and it's only going

577

: 00:30:26

to keep continuing and,

I don't think it's it's something to,

578

: 00:30:32

yeah, worry about or be upset about.

579

: 00:30:34

It's just like it's what happens in sport

and it's how it how it goes

580

: 00:30:38

and how it's going.

581

: 00:30:39

And I think there's also

a completely massive

582

: 00:30:44

spectrum of the gravel experience

that anybody could have.

583

: 00:30:47

And my experience is completely different

from a lot of the other folks

584

: 00:30:53

who go to these gravel events, but I don't

I also don't think that's a bad thing.

585

: 00:30:55

Like, I can have my experience.

They can have theirs.

586

: 00:30:58

We all, are drawn to the sport

and the act of writing the gravel bike for

587

: 00:31:04

maybe

similar reasons, maybe different reasons.

588

: 00:31:06

But at the end of the day, I think we all

there is a lot of similarity

589

: 00:31:10

and a lot of people

just love the adventure.

590

: 00:31:13

Getting a little bit further

away from the cars

591

: 00:31:16

and having a really fun,

really fun time on your bike with friends.

592

: 00:31:19

I mean, at the end of the day, that's

that's still, I think, very core to it,

593

: 00:31:22

even for those of us racing at the

at the pointy end of the race.

594

: 00:31:26

So yeah, try

to hold on to a little bit of that and,

595

: 00:31:29

and also take time to enjoy

596

: 00:31:31

the other elements of gravel riding,

like bike

597

: 00:31:34

packing in this kind of adventure,

riding in these long training rides.

598

: 00:31:38

I do a lot of that stuff as well.

599

: 00:31:39

And so for me,

it's it's finding that balance.

600

: 00:31:43

Also, it seems

601

: 00:31:45

like that, now that gravel racing

is becoming more popular,

602

: 00:31:50

there's more interest to to export

or to develop it globally.

603

: 00:31:56

But do you think there's there's

a market, there's a place for gravel

604

: 00:32:00

to become popular in, I don't know, China

or France or Great Britain

605

: 00:32:04

or you think it is a little bit

like American football or,

606

: 00:32:08

you know, baseball,

like typical North American sport

607

: 00:32:12

with little bit of offspring

in some other places.

608

: 00:32:16

Or do you think it will be a global sport

like Formula one

609

: 00:32:19

or road cycling,

or it will stay in North America mostly.

610

: 00:32:23

What what's your your view on that?

611

: 00:32:26

I think it's definitely going

to become a global phenomenon.

612

: 00:32:30

And I think it already

has to a certain degree.

613

: 00:32:34

Like I said, I did quite a few of these

UCI Gravel World

614

: 00:32:37

Series races in Europe last summer

or the summer.

615

: 00:32:42

And it's really taking off in Europe.

616

: 00:32:44

There's a ton of interest,

617

: 00:32:46

and I think there's a bit of this attitude

from the US like, oh,

618

: 00:32:49

you can only race gravel

619

: 00:32:50

in the US on these big wide dirt farm

roads, and there's only gravel in the US.

620

: 00:32:54

And but I mean there's dirt roads

everywhere like everyone has dirt roads.

621

: 00:33:00

And I knew that from back in 2016,

I did an internship

622

: 00:33:04

north of Frankfurt

in the countryside in Hessen,

623

: 00:33:07

and I spent the whole summer

with a hardtail mountain bike.

624

: 00:33:10

Just riding through the forest

on all these beautiful gravel paths,

625

: 00:33:13

went bikepacking through the Black Forest

626

: 00:33:16

and experienced all this

just incredible terrain

627

: 00:33:20

and already from that point

on, I knew like, this is

628

: 00:33:23

there's this whole other world

in, in Europe with amazing gravel

629

: 00:33:28

riding and amazing terrain,

and I'm sure there's

630

: 00:33:31

countless other places

all across the world

631

: 00:33:33

where you could see

the exact same thing for.

632

: 00:33:35

And so I think it's extremely naive

to just assume that you can only ride

633

: 00:33:38

a gravel bike in Kansas,

because that's where Emporia is,

634

: 00:33:41

and that's where the sport was invented

or where it started.

635

: 00:33:43

Like, people have been riding

some form of a bicycle on a dirt road

636

: 00:33:48

all around the world for, you know,

decades, if not hundreds of years.

637

: 00:33:53

So, yeah,

I think it'll just continue to grow

638

: 00:33:56

globally and people will continue

to embrace it across the world.

639

: 00:34:01

But what is the difference between

640

: 00:34:03

gravel riding,

gravel racing in the US, in Europe?

641

: 00:34:07

You know, I've, I've done a few events

and you know, yeah, you have all you

642

: 00:34:11

big hitters actually racing.

643

: 00:34:12

But participation and pleasure

and adventure

644

: 00:34:17

seems to be the main objectives

for most people.

645

: 00:34:21

Is it the same over in Europe

or is everyone just trying to race it?

646

: 00:34:26

I would say it definitely had a little bit

more of a racier feel.

647

: 00:34:30

And most of the events

that I did in Europe.

648

: 00:34:33

But I think that's because this year,

a lot of the events that I did were,

649

: 00:34:36

this UCI World Series

where there were also

650

: 00:34:41

a lot of amateur age group riders

that were there to qualify for the World.

651

: 00:34:45

And so people

that were there for a specific purpose,

652

: 00:34:49

they were there to try to qualify,

they were there to race.

653

: 00:34:52

And whether it's the pro category

or the age group or whatever it is

654

: 00:34:55

that they're doing,

people were there more for that purpose?

655

: 00:35:00

I would say

there were still plenty of people

656

: 00:35:01

that were there just to enjoy it

and have a great day on the bike.

657

: 00:35:04

And maybe they're from the area

or they're from nearby.

658

: 00:35:06

And it seemed like a cool event to do.

659

: 00:35:09

The last year I did a couple other races

660

: 00:35:12

that were outside of that series

that weren't governed by the UCI,

661

: 00:35:15

and one of them was this race

called octopus Gravel in Switzerland.

662

: 00:35:20

And I really got a sense of

just this huge spectrum, again, of people

663

: 00:35:25

just really enjoying a beautiful day

in the Swiss Alps on their gravel bikes.

664

: 00:35:28

And it was, a timed segment race.

665

: 00:35:31

So people were pushing

hard on the specific segments,

666

: 00:35:33

but then they took the rest of the day

667

: 00:35:35

to really enjoy it

and stop at the aid stations

668

: 00:35:37

and take some nice photos

and enjoy the view.

669

: 00:35:39

And I think,

670

: 00:35:41

I think it's again, like anything,

there's a big spectrum of the experience.

671

: 00:35:45

But you can find

672

: 00:35:46

you can find all of it in Europe,

as you can find all of it in the US.

673

: 00:35:50

But I would say from my experience

on the whole, the races in Europe

674

: 00:35:54

have been a little bit

more kind of from the first

675

: 00:35:58

finisher to the last finisher,

a little bit more competitive feeling.

676

: 00:36:04

But I think that's still it's it's hard

677

: 00:36:05

to make a generalization like that

because they're, they're all so different.

678

: 00:36:08

And all these events

679

: 00:36:10

when you talk about experience

and adventure with the gravel racing

680

: 00:36:15

part of the adventure is that I believe

most or all of these events

681

: 00:36:19

are unsupported, right? There's no team

car follow.

682

: 00:36:22

I mean, just for our listeners

683

: 00:36:23

and viewers who have never heard of it,

there's no team car following.

684

: 00:36:27

So you need to prepare

and bring everything

685

: 00:36:31

you might think you need

or you might need at one point.

686

: 00:36:36

And also, how often do you train

to fix a broken chain or to fix a tire

687

: 00:36:40

or to adjust your, your brakes

because there's nobody out there.

688

: 00:36:43

You cannot just raise your arm and a team

689

: 00:36:45

car shows up or stopping at the next bike

shop.

690

: 00:36:48

It's also no option

in the middle of Kansas, right?

691

: 00:36:51

So how often do you

train these technical skills?

692

: 00:36:55

I would say

693

: 00:36:56

I don't necessarily

take time out of my day or look at it

694

: 00:37:00

as a part of my training

when I'm specifically focusing

695

: 00:37:03

on preparing for fixing punctures

or things like that.

696

: 00:37:06

I think I ride my bike enough and train

enough, and ride in pretty rugged terrain

697

: 00:37:11

purposefully

to try to push the limits of my equipment,

698

: 00:37:14

when I am training so that, yeah,

then I have an issue when I'm out training

699

: 00:37:19

and I'm by myself and instead of

just taking it slow and easy,

700

: 00:37:24

whenever I do have a puncture

and I'm training,

701

: 00:37:26

it's like, okay, let me see how fast

I can fix this just to be,

702

: 00:37:30

you know, thinking, thinking straight

and like, okay, what do I need to do?

703

: 00:37:33

What are the steps?

704

: 00:37:34

But I wouldn't say that I

705

: 00:37:37

yeah,

706

: 00:37:37

take specific

time to like, train those things.

707

: 00:37:40

But I did I spent, about a year

working as a bike mechanic

708

: 00:37:46

when I was at a college,

and I think that really helped me a lot,

709

: 00:37:49

like just kind of learning the ins

and outs of the bikes and how they work

710

: 00:37:52

and the mechanical side of it all,

and being able to build my own bikes,

711

: 00:37:57

which I normally don't do,

I do have a mechanic, here locally

712

: 00:38:01

who does a lot of the work on my bikes,

but in a pinch, when I'm traveling,

713

: 00:38:05

it is also nice to know

that I have those skills.

714

: 00:38:07

And if I do need to fix something,

that I can do it.

715

: 00:38:12

Unlike you and myself, the Jensie!

716

: 00:38:15

Correct!

we're the ones that should be doing

717

: 00:38:17

internships

in mechanic, rooms in bike shops.

718

: 00:38:21

So you mentioned the UCI Gravel Series,

719

: 00:38:26

but there's this other series

that maybe you can help me explain.

720

: 00:38:30

At the beginning of the podcast,

you mentioned that you did the Lifetime

721

: 00:38:33

Grand Prix last year

and didn't do it this year.

722

: 00:38:38

So to our viewers and listeners

that don't know, normally

723

: 00:38:41

I think this year a couple of the races

were were, were canceled or postponed.

724

: 00:38:46

But the Lifetime

Grand Prix is a series of seven races, 30

725

: 00:38:49

men and 30 women,

all competing for an equal prize list.

726

: 00:38:54

Totaling $300,000.

727

: 00:38:56

This series just finished in Big Bear,

and you were in Big Bear,

728

: 00:39:01

but you didn't partake

in the overall series.

729

: 00:39:04

So can you come in

and out of the Lifetime?

730

: 00:39:07

And then only those 30 men and women

actually compete for the overall,

731

: 00:39:11

or can you ride yourself

into that overall?

732

: 00:39:15

So it's changing a little bit

for next year.

733

: 00:39:18

They just recently announced

734

: 00:39:19

that they're changing the structure

slightly for next year.

735

: 00:39:22

But up until this point it's been

736

: 00:39:25

yeah, there's 30 or 35 riders

that they select for men.

737

: 00:39:28

And then the same for women,

at the beginning of the year in November.

738

: 00:39:32

And then those are the riders

that are in the series for the whole year.

739

: 00:39:36

And the, the races

like Unbound, Leadville,

740

: 00:39:40

Sea Otter, you know, the 6 or 7 races

they have in the series.

741

: 00:39:44

They have an elite field.

742

: 00:39:46

And in the elite field

you have those 35 time Grand Prix racers,

743

: 00:39:50

but then you also have another couple

hundred of riders

744

: 00:39:54

that aren't in the series

that are still in the elite field racing.

745

: 00:39:57

And so then at the end of the race,

they have a podium

746

: 00:40:00

for the overall, and then they also have

a Lifetime Grand Prix podium.

747

: 00:40:05

That is for

just the riders in the Grand Prix.

748

: 00:40:07

And those riders get points

based on their finish

749

: 00:40:11

amongst the 30 riders in the series.

750

: 00:40:14

And that is what counts towards

the overall

751

: 00:40:17

which, yeah, wrapped up

just last weekend, at Big Sugar.

752

: 00:40:23

But yeah, for next year, it

sounds like they're changing it slightly.

753

: 00:40:26

They're taking 22 riders to start at the

beginning of the season or in November.

754

: 00:40:31

And then there's they're leaving

three spots open

755

: 00:40:34

for wildcard riders who apply.

756

: 00:40:37

Don't get in but then still do

the first two events of the year.

757

: 00:40:41

So Sea Otter and Unbound and score well,

or I guess have good rides.

758

: 00:40:45

I don't know the criteria

759

: 00:40:46

for how they judge the wild cards,

but they leave three spots open

760

: 00:40:50

that they can, at their discretion, pick,

to bring riders into the series.

761

: 00:40:55

After Unbound.

762

: 00:40:57

So now that you mentioned a little bit,

next year, next season,

763

: 00:41:01

and that we are coming

to an end of this season, right?

764

: 00:41:04

What if Jonathan Vaughters

and EF Education

765

: 00:41:08

Easy-Post calls you up in the next week

and go, hey, you fancy a try?

766

: 00:41:12

Was asked for one year?

767

: 00:41:13

What? You then go,

oh yeah, that sounds awesome.

768

: 00:41:16

You know, become a road professional race.

769

: 00:41:18

Paris -Roubaix that would suit you. Maybe.

770

: 00:41:21

Oh, would you go now?

771

: 00:41:22

Haunt my place in life?

772

: 00:41:23

It's gravel forever for me.

773

: 00:41:26

This would be a really

774

: 00:41:27

tough one for me,

I think, because I really love gravel.

775

: 00:41:31

I love the gravel racing.

776

: 00:41:32

I love the culture,

the scene, the community.

777

: 00:41:35

All the different people

778

: 00:41:37

that I've met over the last three years

of of doing these races.

779

: 00:41:40

It's,

Yeah, it's a super cool environment.

780

: 00:41:44

You know, we have really good friendships

amongst a lot of the racers.

781

: 00:41:47

And yeah, we all race each other

super hard and want to beat each other.

782

: 00:41:50

But at the end of the day, we are all kind

of doing a similar job as individuals.

783

: 00:41:56

And so you kind of have

to help each other out whenever you can.

784

: 00:41:58

I think it's just a different, totally

different structure in the world tour.

785

: 00:42:02

But yeah, I mean, the opportunity

to race series like Paris-Roubaix would be

786

: 00:42:07

really a dream.

787

: 00:42:09

It was cool to get a little bit of a taste

of some of that terrain.

788

: 00:42:12

Just, earlier this month

789

: 00:42:14

when I was over in Belgium

for the Gravel World Championships.

790

: 00:42:17

So, yeah, I think it would be,

it would be a pretty hard, hard offer

791

: 00:42:21

to turn down,

792

: 00:42:23

to go do something like that

and have that that experience.

793

: 00:42:27

Well,

794

: 00:42:28

I did a little digging,

and I have heard about

795

: 00:42:32

your hour of power test

that you did back in the spring.

796

: 00:42:36

485W for an hour is pretty impressive,

no doubt.

797

: 00:42:40

But when you're you mentioned

798

: 00:42:43

that you did this, this test prior

and you didn't eat,

799

: 00:42:48

you don't remember eating anything,

and then this this test,

800

: 00:42:51

you actually fueled

with 130g of carbohydrates.

801

: 00:42:55

And you and I kind of first met

when we, when I was working for a company

802

: 00:42:59

called Super Sapiens.

803

: 00:43:00

When you were trying

to improve your fueling strategy.

804

: 00:43:03

But, you know, going from zero

or minimal carbohydrates

805

: 00:43:08

to this massive amount of 130g per hour

806

: 00:43:12

everybody's talking about,

you need to train your stomach.

807

: 00:43:15

You need to train your stomach.

808

: 00:43:16

What does that actually mean

for our viewers and our listeners?

809

: 00:43:21

Yeah, I

810

: 00:43:21

mean, I think that's

been one of the biggest breakthroughs in

811

: 00:43:24

elite athletics across the board

in the last couple of years

812

: 00:43:28

is this big push to go for more

and more carbohydrates per hour.

813

: 00:43:31

For me,

it's it's really just it's pretty simple.

814

: 00:43:37

Like just when I'm out training,

just trying to do as much as I can,

815

: 00:43:42

you know, making high carb bottles,

bringing gels with me on my training.

816

: 00:43:48

Sometimes if I get,

if I'm, you know, doing a longer, I'll,

817

: 00:43:52

I'll just stop somewhere and, you know,

can be a convenience store or something

818

: 00:43:55

and just really load up

and just keep trying to stay on it

819

: 00:43:58

and really pushing the stomach to get used

to taking that level of fuel while

820

: 00:44:04

also pushing

a pretty, a pretty high output.

821

: 00:44:08

But I think it's been really

a game changer for a lot of us.

822

: 00:44:11

And it's, it's

been responsible for a lot of progress.

823

: 00:44:16

Improvements.

824

: 00:44:17

You know, increases in speed, all of this.

825

: 00:44:19

I mean, I think it's so crucial for these

gravel races due to how long they are.

826

: 00:44:24

I mean, to to come

827

: 00:44:26

through a ten hour race, like, Unbound,

you really have to nail the fueling.

828

: 00:44:30

And if you get that wrong,

829

: 00:44:32

it makes for a really rough day.

830

: 00:44:34

So it's I would say

it's probably one of the most

831

: 00:44:38

key levers that we can pull

when it comes to preparing.

832

: 00:44:41

Well for these races is preparing the gut,

getting the fueling strategy dialed,

833

: 00:44:45

and having it all mapped out

well through the entire race.

834

: 00:44:48

With all the different

feed zones and everything.

835

: 00:44:51

That leads

836

: 00:44:52

me to a follow up question,

your fueling strategy.

837

: 00:44:56

But how about your hydration strategy?

838

: 00:44:58

I mean, on these long races, you have two,

maybe three rest stops.

839

: 00:45:02

We officially get water supply.

840

: 00:45:04

How many water bottles

do you bring to pick once?

841

: 00:45:07

Three of em. Four of em.

842

: 00:45:09

Do you actually drink out of a river

because you're just desperate for liquids?

843

: 00:45:13

How is that gonna work?

844

: 00:45:16

Yeah.

845

: 00:45:16

I mean, for me, that's always a challenge.

846

: 00:45:20

Like we discussed earlier,

I am a big guy.

847

: 00:45:22

I burn through fluid faster

than probably most of my competitors.

848

: 00:45:26

I I'm usually, like, at a race, like,

Unbound.

849

: 00:45:31

I'm usually riding with

850

: 00:45:32

about four liters of water,

so like a two liter hydration pack

851

: 00:45:35

and then two one liter bottles on the bike

and one second back.

852

: 00:45:39

You mean like, like a backpack?

Like a Camelbak style?

853

: 00:45:42

Oh, right. Okay. Thing.

854

: 00:45:43

And so that usually works pretty

well for a race like Unbounded Unbound.

855

: 00:45:49

It's 200 miles.

856

: 00:45:50

We have two aid stations

where we can get refuel.

857

: 00:45:53

And then there's, I think two water oasis

858

: 00:45:57

or water oases that we go through

where you can just get plain water.

859

: 00:46:01

But this year, it was pretty much just

860

: 00:46:04

I only use the two official aid stations,

861

: 00:46:07

and at those you're allowed

to have pretty much full support.

862

: 00:46:10

So you can have a full crew there

that's supporting you.

863

: 00:46:13

And it's basically a formula One pitstop.

864

: 00:46:15

You pull in, you take the hydration

pack off, you get a full new one

865

: 00:46:18

that's already filled up and mixed

with your ratio of,

866

: 00:46:22

carbohydrate mix

two fresh bottles on the bike.

867

: 00:46:27

You know, maybe

you need to pump up your tire or Luger

868

: 00:46:30

chain or whatever it is.

869

: 00:46:31

If it's muddy,

sometimes I'll have a power washer.

870

: 00:46:33

But basically, it's

just take your wrappers

871

: 00:46:38

out of your pockets and fill up

your pockets with some new gels and bars,

872

: 00:46:42

and then you know, where you go

and 20s or something like that.

873

: 00:46:45

So it's really quick in and out

and yeah, that's sort of it's

874

: 00:46:50

just each year those stops have gotten

more and more crucial.

875

: 00:46:53

You have to be really on it.

You have to be really fast.

876

: 00:46:56

This year

I think there are even a handful of guys

877

: 00:46:58

that didn't actually stop at all,

and they just took a musette bag

878

: 00:47:01

and threw the hydration pack off,

grabbed a new one as they were riding by,

879

: 00:47:05

and the speed

never even went below 30 K an hour. So,

880

: 00:47:10

yeah, it's, constantly evolving.

881

: 00:47:13

I've seen some of those videos

and you explained it perfectly.

882

: 00:47:16

It's a formula one pitstop.

883

: 00:47:18

I mean, it's

just totally coordinated and timed.

884

: 00:47:22

Not something that I ever thought

I would see

885

: 00:47:26

in the gravel world, but, it's

here to stay for sure.

886

: 00:47:30

We're getting towards the end of our time

that we have with you, but,

887

: 00:47:34

I need to ask

888

: 00:47:36

a question that I hope

you feel comfortable answering.

889

: 00:47:40

And that's.

890

: 00:47:41

Do you and other old school,

891

: 00:47:44

gravel professionals

892

: 00:47:46

approve or accept or,

like the fact that more and more world

893

: 00:47:50

tour professionals like Mathieu Van

der Poel, who won the gravel worlds

894

: 00:47:55

this year, are participating

in these races?

895

: 00:47:58

Yeah, I love it.

896

: 00:47:59

I mean, for me, I really look at it

as the more the merrier.

897

: 00:48:02

Van der Poel he's a legend.

898

: 00:48:05

Marianne Vos like who? Once

she won the women's race.

899

: 00:48:08

I mean, they're just two absolute

legends in

900

: 00:48:11

not just road

cycling or specific discipline of cycling.

901

: 00:48:14

I mean, they are legends

in the sport of cycling as a sport.

902

: 00:48:17

And, I've, I've thought about Van

der Poel a lot, and I always thought

903

: 00:48:22

I thought about him

at a lot of these races

904

: 00:48:25

and just wondered like,

what would it look like if he showed up?

905

: 00:48:27

I mean, he's proven that he's

906

: 00:48:28

incredibly dominant on a mountain bike,

on a cross bike, on a road bike.

907

: 00:48:32

I mean, really anything with two wheels.

908

: 00:48:33

He seems to be pretty incredible with

so yeah, I think it elevates

909

: 00:48:39

what everyone's doing

when when we see riders of that caliber

910

: 00:48:43

coming in

and like checking out what we're doing,

911

: 00:48:45

like, oh, hey,

there's this whole gravel scene.

912

: 00:48:47

This actually looks pretty cool

and interesting. I'm

913

: 00:48:49

going to I'm going to come and do that,

and I'm going to come check this out.

914

: 00:48:52

And I thought it was super cool

that Mohoric came and that we actually got

915

: 00:48:55

to see the the rainbow jersey

this year at Unbound Racing.

916

: 00:48:59

And I know he had quite a bit of bad luck,

and so did the rest of his teammates

917

: 00:49:04

with mechanicals and stuff.

918

: 00:49:05

But I really welcome welcome those guys.

919

: 00:49:08

I think it's super cool

that that they make the effort to come in

920

: 00:49:10

and and do the races

and check out what we're doing,

921

: 00:49:13

and it really just elevates

everything it makes us all better.

922

: 00:49:17

And I think it's cool

when when they can come over.

923

: 00:49:19

And it also brings

an additional level of media

924

: 00:49:22

attention

and fans to the to the sport as well.

925

: 00:49:28

And, you did you already had a time

926

: 00:49:31

or the patience

to think about next year, future plans.

927

: 00:49:36

What would be your dream result

for next year?

928

: 00:49:40

Your your targets? Your goals?

929

: 00:49:42

Again, after mountain biking

or stay was the gravel.

930

: 00:49:47

Yeah.

931

: 00:49:47

I'm I'm trying to figure all that out

right now.

932

: 00:49:49

This is definitely the busy two days

to think about it or all that.

933

: 00:49:53

Yeah.

934

: 00:49:54

Yeah.

935

: 00:49:55

Trying to rest quickly

and enjoy a little bit of season time.

936

: 00:49:59

But yeah, still deep into the

937

: 00:50:01

thick of planning next year

with sponsors and events and calendar.

938

: 00:50:05

And it's a incredible privilege,

to be in the position

939

: 00:50:10

and to be looking at the calendar

each year, because every year

940

: 00:50:13

there's more and more events

and they all look so exciting and so cool.

941

: 00:50:16

But yeah, it's hard to narrow

down the focus and really pick

942

: 00:50:20

which events to, to go really all in for.

943

: 00:50:23

But Unbound is definitely one

that I really want, to go for.

944

: 00:50:28

I've kind of always looked at Unbound

on more of like a five year trajectory

945

: 00:50:32

where I'm going to try to come into it

every year for five years as prepared

946

: 00:50:36

as I can.

947

: 00:50:37

And it's a race where

you can have such bad luck so easily.

948

: 00:50:42

And so I just kind of look at it

like that, like I'm trying to just show up

949

: 00:50:46

fit and ready to go for five years and,

and see what happens.

950

: 00:50:51

And, you know, maybe

951

: 00:50:52

1 or 2 of those years,

the stars will align a little bit

952

: 00:50:55

more than the others,

and maybe I can be in a position

953

: 00:50:57

to make the right

split and go for a result.

954

: 00:51:01

But yeah, Unbound is a big one.

955

: 00:51:03

I'm still trying to decide on.

956

: 00:51:04

On the Lifetime Grand Prix.

957

: 00:51:05

It was originally planning on

not applying for it.

958

: 00:51:09

If it was going to stay

the same as this year.

959

: 00:51:12

And mostly

that was for me, just due to the altitude.

960

: 00:51:15

A lot of the races are at altitude,

and so it becomes logistically quite

961

: 00:51:18

complicated to pretty much have to spend

the entire summer living at altitude.

962

: 00:51:24

But they removed two of the altitude races

963

: 00:51:27

and they kind of shifted the format

and the structure a little bit.

964

: 00:51:29

So, I would say it's it's

definitely looking more attractive to me.

965

: 00:51:34

I still have to make a final decision

on whether or not I'll apply,

966

: 00:51:37

but I'm definitely leaning towards,

towards that.

967

: 00:51:40

And yeah,

just go back for nationals, try to defend.

968

: 00:51:45

But yeah, the main thing is just to have

969

: 00:51:47

another super fun year of traveling

and racing and meeting cool people.

970

: 00:51:51

And super honored to have

a beautiful jersey to rock all year long.

971

: 00:51:55

And, so many of these super cool races.

972

: 00:51:59

Absolutely.

That's the way you got to do it.

973

: 00:52:01

Have fun out there.

974

: 00:52:02

Do your best, Brennan It's been great

speaking with you.

975

: 00:52:05

We know that you just finished

your last race.

976

: 00:52:07

Just a few days ago.

977

: 00:52:09

You have what you have heat

adaptation training to think about.

978

: 00:52:13

You have travel to think about.

979

: 00:52:14

You have gut training to think about.

980

: 00:52:17

I mean, so many things to think about.

981

: 00:52:19

And then you also have

to perform on your bicycle.

982

: 00:52:21

So we'll

we'll let you go for this evening.

983

: 00:52:23

But thank you so much for coming on

the tandem today.

984

: 00:52:26

Yeah. Thank you guys for having me.

985

: 00:52:28

Real pleasure to chat with you both.

986

: 00:52:30

Well, that's everything for this week.

987

: 00:52:32

Now remember to follow us at Odd Tandem

on TikTok,

988

: 00:52:36

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and wherever

you get your favorite podcasts.

989

: 00:52:40

Thanks to Brennan for joining the podcast.

990

: 00:52:43

Also remember,

if you want to see the video version

991

: 00:52:46

of this podcast,

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

992

: 00:52:51

Youtube.com/OddTandem.

993

: 00:52:55

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast,

994

: 00:52:59

add your name in the titles.

995

: 00:53:00

Just head to our Patreon

996

: 00:53:01

where you can sign up for $5 a month

in order to keep this podcast going.

997

: 00:53:06

That’s Patreon.com/OddTandem…

998

: 00:53:09

Thanks to our Patreon

999

: 00:53:13

members

Scott, Steven Kimbrough, Marie Teixeira,

: 1000

00:53:17,068 --> 00:53:20,071

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: 1001

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: 1003

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: 1004

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: 1005

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just that

And please remember,

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: 1006

00:53:42,761 --> 00:53:47,182

mailbag episode, make sure you keep

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: 1007

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to us at oddtandem@shockedgiraffe.com

: 1008

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or any of our Odd Tandem

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: 1009

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Please keep sharing the podcast and

: 1010

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