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Published on:

15th Nov 2024

Pavel Sivakov: Climbing to success with UAE Emirates

Pavel Sivakov has found comfort in change. After six years at Ineos and Sky he traded one super team for another - joining UAE Emirates for the 2024 season.

A key lieutenant to Tadej Pogacar at the Tour de France and Il Lombardia he faced off against his teammate in national colours at the World Championships this year and was the only man capable of sticking with the dominant Slovenian in the middle phase of the race. Pavel shares the difference between two of cycling's biggest teams, why he made the change and why he chose to represent France instead of Russia on the international stage.

The Odd Tandem is a Shocked Giraffe production. This episode was produced by Mark Payne with music provided by Taylor Phinney.

You can hear an ad free version of the podcast on the Odd Tandem pateron Pateron.com/oddtandem You can also find us on social media by searching @OddTandem

Transcript
Speaker:

For me, this is the most impressive

ride of the year.

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This was. This was crazy.

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I’ve been in his wheel,.

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you know, I've seen how many watts

I was pushing and how strong he was.

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Right. And this was just insane.

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Hello and welcome back

to another episode of The Odd Tandem.

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Today

our guest came from a cycling family,

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worked his way up from the juniors

to a under 23 development program,

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and now into the world tour

with the most dominant team in the world.

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He's had some changes in his life,

including nationality

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and of course, switching from one big team

to another.

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But Jensie, how cool was it talking with

Pavel Sivakov today.

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It was. It was a pleasure.

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And I had so many flashbacks

from the good old days

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because I believe you too Bobby.

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We both raced with his dad.

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He signed his first contract in 98

with, French team.

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Big Mat Aubervillier back then.

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So we probably raced many,

many French Cup races and Tour

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a Med and Étoile de Bessèges with his dad.

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Shows us how old we are.

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But great chat with the son and you can

see he is one of the new generation.

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And one

thing that I wish I would have asked him

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that I forgot to during our interview

was how many languages does he speak?

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Because his English command

of his English of the English language

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was pretty impressive.

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So please sit back, relax and enjoy

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our great conversation with Pavel.

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Sivakov.

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Okay everyone, welcome back to another

episode of the Odd tandem Pavel Sivakov.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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It's a pleasure to be to be with you guys.

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Well, I really appreciate you coming on

and agreeing so quickly

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to come on, because,

I mean, you just got finished

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racing in China

like in the middle of October.

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And here we are on election day

in the United States, November 5th.

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What have you been up to

since, your last race of the:

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I went straight

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to, to our team building, in Abu Dhabi.

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And then, I stay, one more week in

UAE with my girlfriend for some holidays,

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and I'm currently in Barcelona with,

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my mom and sister

also spending some time with them here.

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So, yeah, just,

enjoying my offseason so far.

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So it's been great.

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It's been great, recovering from,

from a long season,

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especially the second part

has been quite busy for me.

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I had an injury,

in the beginning of the of the year,

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and yeah, there has been quite,

Let's see.

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Yeah, I'll just say quite busy

with racing in training camps from.

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Yeah, from I would say April

from May until until October.

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Hey, before, before we

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go deep end to this,

we have a quick session of a quick fire.

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Questions.

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Four questions

short answers please. Ready?

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Yes, yes, yes.

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Okay.

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What's better for your French

or Italian cuisine for you?

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I have to say,

Italian has always, is always better.

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I, I'm more of a fan of Italian cuisine.

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What do you prefer?

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Domestique deluxe or be to captain,

but have to deal with all the stress?

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Well, first off, one,

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I guess, you don't always,

the aim is to be a captain.

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Told you

I really like the domestique role.

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I think, as much as I enjoy it,

you know,

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I think I, I like, I like to win races

and that's that's, that's the aim.

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So, you know, I, I know how to

when to to be domestique.

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I really enjoy, you know, when,

when I have a leader

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that is stronger than me,

I always, I always got this role.

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But when I have a chance,

I always also love to be to be a leader.

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What's better for you?

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The French champion jersey

or a yellow jersey in Paris Nice

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The French champion jerseys is.

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Yeah, you know, you have to

you can wear it one year and it's

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I think for me is beautiful Jersey

something.

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Yeah.

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With a very special to wear

I think especially if you

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if you were selected

for the tour that year.

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I think that's, that's something yeah.

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Something special as a Frenchman.

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And what would be your dream car?

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Renault Alpine or a Porsche?

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A Porsche, definitely just me. Porshe.

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That's.

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That's not even a question.

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Thank you.

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Wow. So I got to go back to what you said

about

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finishing your last race

and going straight to team building.

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Jens and I were on a team called CSC

with Bjarne Riis and BS Christiansen,

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and they kind of coined

that term team building.

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And we actually went out

and did some pretty crazy things.

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I mean, we were on army bases,

we were doing simulated fire drills.

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We were building bridges,

we were shooting guns.

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I mean, the list goes on and on and on.

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Cross-country skiing, downhill skiing.

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What do you guys do at your team building?

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At UAE Emirates?

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Actually, we we have like some riders,

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they have quite a lot of, quite

a lot of meetings with the local sponsors.

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There is in UAE.

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Then we have like some activities

also as a team.

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Actually this year I kind of missed

the main meeting I got sick the last day

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and the team, the guys went for like

karting races and I missed that part.

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But yeah, I think it's nothing.

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Nothing. Just as.

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Yeah, as crazy as you,

you just described.

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I think that's, Yeah.

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Like, it's like proper team building,

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like, like,

you know, going, like, kind of army stuff.

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I actually I heard about these stories

you just said.

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And, Yeah,

that sounds sounds like a lot of fun.

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I think ours is more basic,

you know, also in the evening,

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we we do with the guys

we go for, for some drinks, in the bar

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and just, just enjoying some time

together, you know, because actually,

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as you guys know, like,

we see, we see each other.

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I am now in in October and then in

December for the, the training camp.

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But then in the season, like, there is

some guys I didn't even see this year.

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And it has been almost a year.

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That's, that I didn't see them.

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So it's always nice to be all together.

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And, you know, to, to build this group.

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And I think in any way, we do have

a really nice group of guys and,

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it's always

enjoyable to to spend this time

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with my team-mates.

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So it is, camp was more about

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getting each other to know, integrating

you right

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us into the team and maybe looking

looking ahead to the next season.

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Or you already did some training

or was more

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pleasure leisure

and just talking a little bit.

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Yeah.

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Was more like like you said, it was more

about getting to know each other,

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getting the new riders into the group,

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doing some, some like activities to.

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Yeah, to to get to know each other.

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Although most of the guys

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already know each other and, yeah,

we didn't train at all.

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We did like one one, one ride.

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Two rides actually, with,

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there for the, for the local club

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also celebrating,

the, the best team of the year.

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So, yeah, we didn't train at all.

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Everyone just finished

the season everyone.

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Some guys are deep in the offseason.

Actually.

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Some of them also restarted training.

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I just finished my season.

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You know how it goes. And,

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no, it wasn't training at all, was just

I get to get together.

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Really?

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Well, talking about the 2024

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season,

you and your UAE Emirates Teammates

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pretty much dominated 81 wins,

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54 second places, 48 third places.

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I hope you guys celebrated.

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I know that that's kind of a faux

pas in in cycling these days

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because everyone's

watching their their weight and whatnot.

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But, I mean,

that was such a dominating performance.

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What do you think you guys can do

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in next year to be as successful,

or even more so

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because I don't think

I've ever seen a team with that many,

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not only that many wins,

but that many podiums.

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On top of that.

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Yeah, definitely.

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We did celebrate that you know.

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You know, we got a bit of a so no, it was

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it was an amazing season

for for the team that’s for sure.

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You know, I mean we also had

a lot of different riders winning.

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That's that's also something that's,

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that's

that's quite crazy about our season.

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I think I think must be like around

20 different riders,

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having won a race this year.

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Plus, like everything several guys

winning a lot as well.

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I think it's going to be hard

to, to do better in this, really.

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In terms of numbers.

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Yeah.

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Numbers of wins, but also the victories

we got, especially with Tadej,

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you know, in the team.

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I mean, it's hard to, to ask for better

probably the, the only bad.

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Yeah.

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The better things we could have done

is maybe win the three Grand tours

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or something crazy like this, but

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even then, I think we can only be happy

about about our season and

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yeah, try, try to do better of course,

next year.

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But, you know, even then I think.

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Yeah, just, just keep this dynamic.

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I think estimating the dynamic of winning,

you know,

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there is a real winning culture

in the team when I joined the team,

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I felt this, you know,

when everyone really strives to to win.

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And I think I think that's why we win

so much.

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It's just this,

this will to win from everyone.

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And that just drives

everyone also to, to do the same,

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but at the same time, you know, working

very well together.

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But, you know, when we have

an opportunity, we, we always go for it.

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And and I think, yeah, that's,

that's why it was so

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yeah, such a successful season.

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And the team is so successful as well.

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I'm glad you

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mentioned, that so many different riders

of your team won it,

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because that's something

you always laugh about teams

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when they have a variety of riders

winning.

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And, I would have ask you about it,

but you mention it.

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So yeah, that's a really good point

for any team because it shows, you know,

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that the team works together

and are all willing to take and give,

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what what

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result after all these,

fantastic wins the team and what result

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you, personally most proud of?

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For me,

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I guess I guess my yeah, my top

ten in the world was good.

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I wouldn't say I have, like, one result.

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That stands out this season,

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I think is more it's

more the, the progression.

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I mean, I had during the season,

I think I finished

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really well, like,

I've been in a lot of my, like, records,

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once, you know, watts records in the world

tour and afterwards also in Lombardia,

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I guess the, the race that

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I will remember the most would be

maybe Lombardia this year.

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I was feeling really good there.

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Tadej won, he smashed the race as he

he usually does.

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But the behind, you know,

I still had the legs to fight for podium,

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and I think I did have the legs

to be on the podium that day.

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You know, tactically, maybe

I mismanaged the final, but no, I think,

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that's just, I would say one of the,

my best races this year, but obviously,

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I really enjoy also the Vuelta

and also the tour de France, you know,

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winning

this month is the first time, I mean,

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I win the tour as a team-mate

and this was such an amazing experience.

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Also, the tour is always something special

and we are an amazing

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group of riders there.

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You know, a good laugh every day.

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And I think, we showed on the road,

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yeah.

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How we, how we were as a group as well.

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And yeah, I think is just,

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you know, this year was a change for me.

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You know, I did six year with Sky

and then Ineos and.

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Yeah, it was about time to change it.

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I think this,

this was like a bit of a fresh air and

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yeah it had on me good I think is

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I really enjoyed, racing this year.

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Well we watched as fans

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and in Jens’s case he commentated on

most of the big races of the sport.

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So we're fans of the sport.

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You know, we did it ourselves,

but we love watching it as well.

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There were some amazing rides this year.

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What in your opinion

was the most impressive ride from?

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From any rider, you know, you being

in the race or even watching it on TV?

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Well, for

me actually, I've been really close to it.

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Was it the world's from Tadej?

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For me, this is the most impressive

ride of of the year.

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This was this was crazy.

I've been in his wheel.

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You know, I've seen the how

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how many Watts I was pushing

and how strong he was riding.

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And this was just insane.

I think that day.

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Yeah, he just stands out,

you know, so long by the

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I was also there with him to,

to really witness the performance.

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But for me worlds was something,

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something else, you know,

it was like a 100kms from the finish.

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Many really strong riders

also chasing behind.

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Yeah, it's something we've never seen.

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And I think we all witnessed like

some of the, the history of cycling there.

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And yeah, for me

this was yeah, this was amazing.

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Something. Yeah. Something just crazy.

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And and how was it for you.

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How did it feel to race against Tadej?

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Not with him because you are

on your national team. Right.

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And you had, some other French riders

they were looking good

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or they tried to be, kept

or try to be in a top ten, top

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five position and going into the race,

did you know

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if I can stick on Tadej’s, wheel

I finished guaranteed second.

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Was that an idea of yours?

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Actually, yes.

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This was I mean, when he joined my like,

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I wasn't to like him in the front group

at this point.

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And when he joined the group,

I was like, okay, now

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I'm I'm actually feeling

pretty good today.

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I think I'm going to, yeah, I'm

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going to try and stay with him

as long as possible.

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You know, if I can stay with him.

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Yeah, it's maybe I believe in the podium

at one point and.

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Yeah, then when he accelerated, I managed

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to stay with him in this first part

of the of the climb in just a bit.

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And he dropped me just just over the top.

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And he looked back.

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He seen I've been just behind.

He waited for me.

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And I think this was the point

where he he really killed me because,

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it was still quite a like around

five minutes until the top.

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And I buried myself

just to stay in the wheel.

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And actually, this

this course was really tough

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because even after the climb,

you don't really have a moment to recover.

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You constantly pressing on, you know, you

maybe have like 30 seconds but 30 seconds

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one minute, but when you already go

so deep is almost impossible to recover.

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And even in in the short downhill, it's,

it's almost not enough because it's,

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it's really fast.

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You have to keep the concentration

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and. Yeah.

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Yeah, I mean I went so deep there

to stay with him and enough to that.

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Yeah I just yeah, I completely exploded

and yeah race was over.

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But yeah, this this is why for me, it's

just it's just insane

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how how good he was on that day. I mean,

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yeah, like I

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said, I've,

I've pushed great big watts in this climb.

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And he was. Yeah.

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He just managed to do almost

the same again on the next lap. And.

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Yeah, it's, it was just,

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just crazy to witness.

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That must have been an amazing feeling,

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knowing that you're witnessing

something like that, experiencing it.

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Feeling it.

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I mean, I had a beer in my hand,

so I wasn't feeling anything

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when I was watching it, but

when I saw you on the wheel, I was like,

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oh, my God, that is The Hurt Locker.

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That is. That is tough.

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But,

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back in my day, I was never, as a rider.

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I was never part of a tour de France

winning team.

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But it was quite customary

where the winner

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would do something special

for his team-mates.

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Would you did Tadej do that for you guys?

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And if you could, could you share

what what that gift or that gesture was.

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Yeah.

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He he got us or a nice watch, you know,

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with our names on and, you know, something

to to remember this moment.

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I think, is what is always

is always super nice, you know, from the

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from the leader when you,

when you receive a nice gift, you know,

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when you arrive home after training

and there is,

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there is a nice gift for you

there, is always special, you know,

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but, yeah, for me is also remembering,

you know,

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all this journey

we had, during the tour is.

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Yeah, it is. This is

this is super, super nice.

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You know, this or this three weeks

and like, a little.

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Yeah. Just like this.

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You know, when you, when you,

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when you wear the watch or you do see it,

it it you just remember straight away

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these moments,

that we, we all go through and.

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Yeah, it's is it's always nice to know

when, when the leader.

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We appreciate your work and, you just

you just want to do it again.

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Really?

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I think, you know, as long as I can be

part of, of the, the tour de

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France squad, you know, for me is always

an honour and a pleasure to to do it.

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You know,

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as we were talking in the beginning,

you ask me about domestique or leader.

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I mean, I like to be a leader,

but when, you know, when you know that

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you have a leader that is stronger

than you, you have to to accept it.

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And embrace,

you know, the domestique role.

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And it's something

also I really enjoy doing, especially

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especially on the tour with,

you know, with the crowds,

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also being a Frenchman

for me is a special race.

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I just loved it this year.

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It was, it was amazing.

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And your team is

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quite loaded with really strong

and talented riders.

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Right.

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Well, it's a question.

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How how do you feel in there?

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Does it keep you on your tippy toes?

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Does it make you work harder

to earn your place

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in this group of very strong, talented

riders?

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And, second part of the question,

how early did you know you

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in the tour de France team in a long team

or you know for sure in the team because,

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you know, they cannot call you up

two weeks ago and go,

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hey, in ten days

you're going to go to the tour, right?

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It's a process to work towards that goal.

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So how do you feel in

is in a team of superstars?

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And since when did you know you're going

to be in the tour de France team?

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I feel I feel good, you know,

I've been actually I've always

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been in the team where we have

plenty of very talented riders.

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Actually,

I think I've been really lucky with this,

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from my beginnings,

you know, and for me is always

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for me.

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That's that's what,

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that drives you.

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You know, you have talented guys around

you, and you can never really relaxed.

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You always have to work hard.

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And, you know,

I feel like the team trusts me.

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But also, you have to earn the spot,

you know,

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you have to, to show them that

that's your.

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Yeah, you earn this trust and and,

Yeah, it

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just it's just something nice, you know,

so the motivation that it gives you

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because you have like a bunch of really

motivated guys around you, like I said

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about this winning culture, that's that's

what's really good about about having,

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like, yeah, superstars around you

because, yeah, everyone is really driven.

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Everyone is really professional

and works hard.

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And it just creates this, this culture.

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And that's what I, what I saw,

you know, with Sky when sky was

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I joined the team when Sky was,

we'll say the team number one

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and it was,

it was this, you know, a bunch of.

387

:

Yeah.

388

:

It's just this momentum

that, that it gives, you know, wins.

389

:

And when you have many riders winning

390

:

and yeah, we've made it, you know

391

:

in the last in the past couple years

it wasn't the case in this team.

392

:

But now I joined UAE and once again

I’m part again of a team

393

:

which has this momentum of, of winning.

394

:

And yeah, for me it's just it's

just nice to be there.

395

:

Of course is not always easy.

396

:

You know, I could have chosen, let's say,

397

:

not to be harsh,

but a smaller team when I would have,

398

:

more of a leadership role.

399

:

But I don't know, I really

I really enjoy being being around me.

400

:

Strong riders.

401

:

You also, you know,

402

:

even if I'm not the youngest rider

anymore, you're always learn from them.

403

:

And you always. Yeah.

404

:

From from all the riders and

and yes it's super nice.

405

:

And for the the second question

actually we knew

406

:

quite early

that, the, the tour de France team was

407

:

was already done I think last December.

408

:

So in December camp we have we,

we speak about the race program

409

:

and from there,

you know, accept any issues.

410

:

Like the main,

the main core of the team is already done.

411

:

And, yeah, actually we knew all the eight

riders already in December, so

412

:

I think this is

something really nice for me also.

413

:

You know,

I felt like the team did trust me.

414

:

And it was it was,

you know, something really good.

415

:

And I could just work towards this goal,

you know,

416

:

without too much pressure and

417

:

this, this was this was great actually,

418

:

I think I think it's a good way to do it.

419

:

Yeah.

420

:

That’s a plan your work and work your plan

sort of thing.

421

:

If you can tell the eight guys

that are doing the tour de France

422

:

that they're doing the tour de France

in December, and actually stick to that,

423

:

no doubt.

424

:

But I think

425

:

the issue, the issue, as you know, is

maybe someone gets sick or crashes out,

426

:

but we've been lucky last year

that all the year guys were healthy

427

:

and and ready to go for the tour.

428

:

So I think yeah, it's it's super good. No,

429

:

but you kind of touched on the reasons

430

:

why you transitioned, you know, from

431

:

from one of the biggest teams in the past

to the biggest team of the present.

432

:

But change.

433

:

Change is a primal fear

for a lot of people.

434

:

You know, we kind of do our thing.

435

:

We get used to a certain thing

we're there for, you know, at a team

436

:

like you were at at Sky

and Ineos for six years.

437

:

And then you're switching everything,

you're switching bikes, you're switching

438

:

clothing,

you're switching nutritional products,

439

:

you're switching

coaching staff and support staff.

440

:

How did

you make that transition so easily?

441

:

Because it's kind of hard

and it doesn't work 100% of the time

442

:

when you make the switch

443

:

and then all of a sudden

you're trusted with a tour de France spot.

444

:

Yeah.

445

:

No, I think I was at the end of the cycle

446

:

personally, and

I think it was about time to change and

447

:

actually it's been quite easy

to transition teams.

448

:

I have to say,

449

:

yeah.

450

:

Like you say with the bike actually,

maybe the injury, you know,

451

:

I had was like, you know, this little

452

:

when you change bikes it’s

always hard to find the perfect position.

453

:

And you know, I go like a niggle

go on under my knee.

454

:

And then it developed in like,

a tendon got going inflamed.

455

:

But yeah, apart

456

:

from this, when you,

when you settle everything,

457

:

you know, the clothing, at the end,

you adapt quickly.

458

:

Also the nutrition brand,

459

:

the top teams nowadays,

everyone is using good products.

460

:

I think is is quite easy.

461

:

Also to adapt to adapt to a group for me

was was really.

462

:

Yeah.

463

:

How specific easy is actually

464

:

I think people

shouldn't be scared of change sometimes.

465

:

You know when you feel like like I said,

you are at the end of a cycle or

466

:

feel like,

yeah, maybe, maybe change will be good.

467

:

I think it's only beneficial to

468

:

to have a fresh, fresh aire

you know, you start from scratch

469

:

or not from scratch,

but you start something new.

470

:

We have a yeah, a new, new coaching.

471

:

New team-mates, new new stuff around you.

472

:

And just to have this,

you know, always like

473

:

it's like a new chapter

in your career and,

474

:

I think, yeah, people

shouldn't be scared of that.

475

:

Of course.

476

:

You know, I also don't think it's good

to change every

477

:

too often.

478

:

I like also some stability

I think is nice to,

479

:

you know, to stay with this group

because when you change too often is

480

:

maybe that then the opposite way,

you know, it may be unstable

481

:

and you don't really know, but I really

like also the stability that creates.

482

:

I really enjoyed my six year with Ineos,

you know, at the end

483

:

I think team is also sometimes

like a family,

484

:

like your second family,

you spend more time with your

485

:

with your cycling

team than your family. And,

486

:

and yeah,

487

:

you know, always being race and now.

488

:

Yeah, I'm,

I'm really enjoying my time with UAE and,

489

:

Yeah, I'm lucky

I still have two years in my contract.

490

:

And, you know, for the moment,

you know, I, I enjoy these years and

491

:

let's see,

let's see what the future brings.

492

:

I'm really excited already to start 2025.

493

:

I don't know, I haven't spoken yet

about my race program or anything.

494

:

You know, I'm in my off season,

so I'm kind of switching off,

495

:

but already, you know, excited to

to start again, to build the winter and

496

:

and to go again, so

497

:

no, I mean, the changes is, is good

from time to time.

498

:

I think.

499

:

I'm talking changes.

500

:

Your life there, there has been, like,

some changes, for our viewers

501

:

and listeners, maybe you give them

a quick story about your life.

502

:

You're born in Italy,

bought at the age of one.

503

:

You moved to France, then you had a French

and Russian citizenship.

504

:

You raced under a Russian license,

and I believe 22.

505

:

You changed to a French, license. Or.

506

:

No. Now you're racing

with a French national team.

507

:

How did all that, come along?

508

:

I believe some of it is

paid to your parents.

509

:

Your dad was a cyclist as well, right?

510

:

And by the way, please say hi to Alexei.

511

:

We raced together.

512

:

I think we both started in France in 98.

513

:

Me with GAN Credit Agricole

and he started was Big Mat Aubervillier

514

:

So we raced many French Cup races

together.

515

:

Say hi to him when you see me

next time. But. Yeah.

516

:

So how did all that

come along in your relatively young life?

517

:

Yeah, it's like you.

518

:

Like you say, both my parents are Russian.

519

:

They were both, professional cyclists

and, Yeah, my dad started

520

:

with, with in 97 with RosLotto.

521

:

And that's why I'm born in Italy.

522

:

He had a contract there,

and then he signed

523

:

with Big Mat,

and that's when we moved to France and

524

:

I stayed in living in France.

525

:

I grew up in France,

526

:

from one until

527

:

until I was until 2019,

when I moved to Andorra. So.

528

:

So, yeah.

529

:

Because of my parents,

I had the only the Russian passports

530

:

until until I was 18, where I could apply

to get the French citizenship.

531

:

But I by this time I was already racing

with the Russian national team.

532

:

And yeah, then

533

:

then I

534

:

didn't change straight away

when I turned pro,

535

:

because I wanted to do

the Olympic Games in Tokyo and,

536

:

it would have been two years,

537

:

you know, waiting without doing it,

538

:

without doing any, any major competitions.

539

:

So, yeah.

540

:

Basically also then did the war happen

and, in Ukraine.

541

:

So for me, it was also something.

542

:

Yeah, something.

543

:

Yeah, a bit complicated.

544

:

It and this actually made it easier

for me to make the transition.

545

:

And I got to the changing, like,

in, like a week or like two days.

546

:

You know, when I had the French, French,

national of sporting

547

:

nationality, although I had the French

nationality already.

548

:

So, yeah, maybe also, like,

speaking of changes, you know,

549

:

maybe that's why

I also have an ability to change.

550

:

Because I grew up,

you know, in kind of a mix of cultures

551

:

and, you know,

it's always been easy to transition.

552

:

Not easy, but it's.

553

:

Yeah, in my head, it's kind of easy to

transition from one language to another.

554

:

And I think

555

:

it also

556

:

makes probably also in life,

you know, something

557

:

that makes it easier

to maybe even understands new understand

558

:

new cultures, you know,

and I also been really lucky to encounter

559

:

a lot of different cultures throughout

my career, you know, in different teams,

560

:

like the British culture with Ineos

also different riders and,

561

:

and I think that's why maybe doing changes

at the end of the day

562

:

is something I get really accustomed

to read very quickly.

563

:

And I really enjoyed.

564

:

Well, you've managed that pretty

darn well, I must say.

565

:

But with both of your parents

being cyclists and

566

:

heck,

you were born during the tour de France.

567

:

So you're going to be celebrating

568

:

your birthday during the tour de France

in until you retire, right?

569

:

So cycling seems to have been

kind of destined for you,

570

:

but what what got you into

cycling in the first place?

571

:

Was it

just trying to hang out with your dad,

572

:

or was it always just a burning passion,

desire, destiny inside of you?

573

:

I actually I

574

:

didn't, didn't cycle like, straight away,

I did.

575

:

I've done, a lot of different sports.

576

:

When I was younger, I started with, judo

that I some football or soccer,

577

:

as you call it, in the US.

578

:

Then some tennis,

579

:

basketball, handball,

a lot of different stuff.

580

:

But, you know,

cycling was always around at home.

581

:

It was always there, always present.

582

:

I never like

got a license for race straight away. But

583

:

then I tried cycling

and I could feel like, you know,

584

:

it was the sport I was good at.

585

:

And I got a license for racing

and I was pretty good quite quickly.

586

:

And, and yeah,

I mean, it was just there as well.

587

:

It was it, it was very hard to avoid.

588

:

My sister

589

:

managed to

avoid I think it was too much for her, but

590

:

yeah, it was, it was always probably

also a dream of mine,

591

:

you know, inside and, and.

592

:

Yeah, I mean, obviously.

593

:

Yeah.

594

:

I mean, at home, it was,

it was kind of obvious, I would say.

595

:

So, with your parents

both being cyclists,

596

:

are they still super nervous and afraid

for you when you leave for grand Tour?

597

:

I mean, they both must have had their own

598

:

fair share of crashes, because we all know

cycling is sometimes dangerous.

599

:

And it hurts like mad

if you fall here, right?

600

:

If you crash, is mom

obviously nervous for you?

601

:

Or she goes

to, you know, you're a big boy.

602

:

You do whatever you do or she still go,

oh, please come home, my son.

603

:

How is that? And,

604

:

if you back home for a weekend,

you all talks

605

:

hiking, taking, cycling, cycling

only because you are taking experts.

606

:

Oh, how is that gonna work?

607

:

Yeah, actually, of course,

I think for parents especially,

608

:

they know they're they're obviously

always nervous and.

609

:

Yeah, I think he's

always is always the odds, you know, to,

610

:

you know there's some risk

but also some reward.

611

:

And then the same that in a way

not only of all the crashes

612

:

but also nervous about how I'm gonna,

race and all this stuff

613

:

and. Yeah, yeah, when we, we speak,

so we speak,

614

:

a lot of cycling is, is the main topic.

615

:

That's that's for sure.

616

:

You know, that's that's our, our stuff.

617

:

Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah.

618

:

Maybe too much. But, we love it.

619

:

I mean, just the. That's the passion.

620

:

So how old were you when you decided

621

:

to stop doing judo and these other sports

and focus on, on cycling?

622

:

I think I started around 13.

623

:

So it's not late,

624

:

but it's not like I know some guys

I started earlier.

625

:

And then I started

racing on the roads in,

626

:

in the Pyrenees.

627

:

That's, that's where I started.

628

:

And I slowly made,

629

:

made my steps there

on, the smaller races and ya,

630

:

it was it was good time.

631

:

Did you ever try

632

:

some other cycling like BMX,

mountain biking, cyclocross

633

:

or on the track or you go now it's road

racing for me or nothing else.

634

:

I've tried a bit of track.

635

:

I've done a bit of track, but,

636

:

there wasn't too many,

too many races in the Pyrenees.

637

:

There is a couple of also outdoor

velodrome, one in, in France.

638

:

This was the closest

one to me. Also in indoor.

639

:

And I went to a couple times also with

640

:

regional team to,

641

:

to Bordeaux,

to do some, some racing there.

642

:

But it mainly was the road.

643

:

And actually I wish,

I wish I did a bit more of other stuff.

644

:

Obviously

I, I rode sometimes a mountain bike and,

645

:

and it always kind of stopped, but

it was mainly road and I wish I'd done

646

:

I've done more of, Yeah.

647

:

Like cyclocross, mountain bike,

you know, like a lot of different

648

:

something for for young cyclists

is really important to, to really,

649

:

you know, for the skills

but also, yeah, for the fun.

650

:

I think it's nice to do different

disciplines.

651

:

You learn a lot from,

from each one of them.

652

:

And you can see it actually on the road

now, a lot of recruit riders, they, they,

653

:

they come through that and they still

keep doing it, you know, and like Tom,

654

:

Mathieu and, and Wout, you know,

you see how, how good you are on the road,

655

:

but also they bring in all these skills

from, from different disciplines.

656

:

Also a lot of track riders, like Pippo

Ganna still, still doing it, you know,

657

:

but yeah, for me

it was mainly road for all my career.

658

:

I was

659

:

cautious to, to bring this up,

but I'm going to give it a shot.

660

:

So your name popped up on my radar

back in:

661

:

I got a call from the late, great

Nicolas Portal He was working for Sky,

662

:

and I was, transitioning.

663

:

I was, I was at BMC, or he thought

I was going to be at BMC for a while,

664

:

and he spoke so highly of you.

665

:

They didn't have a development team.

666

:

BMC did have a development team.

667

:

I'm just curious,

what was your relationship with Nico?

668

:

Because like I said,

he just had such a high opinion of you.

669

:

Yeah.

670

:

I mean, and Nico, Nico was.

671

:

Yeah, it was great.

672

:

I think he was a super special,

special person.

673

:

Everyone have run.

674

:

Yeah. And us in the team.

675

:

It was you know, it was a big loss for

676

:

for. Yeah, for for everyone who knew him.

677

:

And,

678

:

and. Yeah, I mean, he's done

679

:

a lot for me, obviously, in my career,

I think, you know,

680

:

he was also a big part of why

I was always in Sky, obviously.

681

:

And and also even even where I live now.

682

:

Actually, In Andorra, he, he was living

also in Andorra at the moment.

683

:

And he told me,

you know, to to come have a look

684

:

and actually the apartment I bought it

I'm staying in.

685

:

He also showed it to me.

686

:

I like, you know,

so I had a special relations

687

:

relationship with him and

688

:

yeah, it was, you know,

689

:

it was, I think, really, really sad

what happened. And,

690

:

Yeah. Well, what can I say?

691

:

Yeah.

692

:

This is it's been

hard, I think, for everyone, but, it was.

693

:

Yeah, it's what it is really.

694

:

And in your six years with Ineos,

695

:

Grenadiers or team sky at the start,

what did you take away?

696

:

What was could we go?

697

:

I will always keep doing this

for the rest of my career.

698

:

And what's different

with, your team now with team UAE?

699

:

If there is a difference

700

:

for, That's a hard question,

701

:

actually,

I think is, is very hard to to choose?

702

:

So one thing, you know, I think is just,

703

:

yeah.

704

:

How we in sky how how professional

is the approach to everything?

705

:

I think that's that's something

I learned a lot.

706

:

Also,

you know, learned a lot from the riders.

707

:

The, you know, the work ethic

they have is, is is just amazing.

708

:

You know,

709

:

and, I think that's, that's what

710

:

I'll always do, really approach,

711

:

all the details like this.

712

:

Actually, yeah.

713

:

It's hard to, to choose something.

714

:

Want one thing?

715

:

And what's different in UAE?

716

:

In a way, I think,

717

:

I think how to, to explain it is maybe,

718

:

you know, Ineos was,

like kind of a British team.

719

:

Maybe, you know what I mean?

720

:

Like more,

you know, like, kind of Anglo-Saxon

721

:

or how you go, how you call like,

this, this type of mentality.

722

:

And UAE is maybe more like

Spanish, Italian influence team, you know,

723

:

and the difference is hard to explain,

but I, I guess you guys know how it is.

724

:

A bit of,

725

:

a bit of a different approach,

726

:

maybe a little bit more laid back in UAE.

727

:

And a bit more like on it in Ineos

728

:

and I think, it suits and also it suits

729

:

and it's good for certain periods,

you know, like, you know, so it was nice.

730

:

But maybe I need to also this change,

you know, a bit more laid back.

731

:

Being a bit maybe less control.

732

:

Also, so

733

:

I would say

maybe that those are the difference,

734

:

but yeah, it's, it also learns you

a lot of stuff, you know, doing

735

:

really get interested about a lot of stuff

in, in yours.

736

:

And yeah, I think is actually hard to,

to really pick.

737

:

One thing

I think is just the combination and,

738

:

and the stuff that,

that I learned over the years, you know,

739

:

from more from the riders, you know,

observing like, you know, from G.

740

:

Kiwato also,

I learned a lot from them how,

741

:

how they approach,

742

:

racing training

and also also life in general.

743

:

And now I'm more of maybe grown and

744

:

I'm in UAE, you know, maybe

745

:

also with more experience is also good

to be a bit more laid back, less control.

746

:

I know what I'm doing.

747

:

I've learned a lot already with,

with, with Ineos and Sky, so.

748

:

Yeah, it's that's, that's it's really.

749

:

Well, I'm going to have to,

to pick your brain a little bit because,

750

:

you know, starting so young,

been having great results as a junior.

751

:

Moving on to, you know the under 23’s

752

:

and now in what you're

753

:

seventh year as a as a pro

a lot of guys that you raced

754

:

with back in the junior years

under 23 years.

755

:

There's some familiar names in in

in that list.

756

:

But there's also a lot of guys

that didn't make it,

757

:

outside of just the pure physical talent

758

:

that it takes to pedal a bike

as fast as you can.

759

:

What other life skills do you believe

are important

760

:

to ensure a, a successful career for?

761

:

For some young riders just starting out?

762

:

Well, I think,

763

:

I think, I think balance is probably

764

:

for me,

765

:

the key is actually quite hard because,

I would say I also kind of struggle

766

:

with this, you know, when I was younger

to find this balance actually,

767

:

I would say it's now where I really

768

:

I found, this balance,

I would say even like we had this

769

:

year, you know, is is something

I struggled and it's something

770

:

really complicated because now I would say

I was also in a generation

771

:

that was kind of transitional, know

from old cycling to new cycling.

772

:

Now it's, you know, I came to the pros.

773

:

It was quite early.

774

:

I think I was 20 or 19, I remember I was,

775

:

but now it's, it's coming

even earlier and I think

776

:

and I think

777

:

you're really on it, on this intensity

778

:

of being a professional from an early age

and,

779

:

it's harder to find these balance

because maybe in your head

780

:

you're not as mature, you know, you know,

you don't

781

:

think about all this, and,

782

:

you know, it's easy

to be to do too much training.

783

:

You know, when you,

when you're in this bubble, you train,

784

:

you train, you sleep, you eat,

everything is calculated.

785

:

You can count your calories.

786

:

You can count

787

:

how many hours, you can count everything,

basically.

788

:

And I think

789

:

I think it's about finding this balance

where you can kind of,

790

:

switch off from this

791

:

or you don't take this too seriously

if something doesn't go your way.

792

:

And,

793

:

yeah,

I think I think is about this really,

794

:

yeah, I think, I think for me,

the key is finding.

795

:

Finding this, finding your way more

than, you know, trying to be someone else

796

:

as well.

797

:

Trying not to compare yourself

to, you know,

798

:

it was all easy now to compare yourself

with the many young riders.

799

:

You know, when when I was like

Tadej started to be really good.

800

:

And I wasn't,

you know, I was kind of this this year.

801

:

I wasn't performing

as maybe the expectation were.

802

:

And that's where also some young guys

that will struggle, you know,

803

:

because you compare yourself

to someone that

804

:

they do well and, you know, you just

and just try to find your way

805

:

and your career, your path and, and,

and do it

806

:

your way and also keep believing,

you know, that's also,

807

:

I think the main thing, you know,

you have to believe in yourself and,

808

:

and. Yeah, it's just.

809

:

Yeah, more or less this

I think, that's what I, how

810

:

I would advise you, guy.

811

:

Even though, after talking

812

:

to older riders, younger riders, over

the years was our podcast.

813

:

It feels like in this modern day and age,

it is super hard

814

:

to actually get into cycling

if you not do everything to perfection.

815

:

I believe back in our days, Bobby and me,

you could still start

816

:

the season with, two kilos overweight

and you would still survive

817

:

if you start Pyrenees with two kilos or we

this year you be out of the time limit.

818

:

So I believe cycling does become

a little harder and does more valuable.

819

:

Are your words now that every now

and then you have to, like,

820

:

put on the brake

a little bit and find to balance right or

821

:

how long in the year?

822

:

12 months.

823

:

How long can you keep the balance

or how long can you keep the focus

824

:

on counting the calories count? And,

825

:

your watts your kilos, your kilometres?

826

:

Is it like ten months on, two months off?

827

:

I wouldn't

I wouldn't count it like this. Really.

828

:

I think for me it's more,

829

:

it's more, you know,

830

:

I've, I've accepted

also is is a way of life.

831

:

It's not something that is.

832

:

It's kind of, penny pinching.

833

:

Yes. To do,

you know, I'm like, okay, this is this is.

834

:

I don't even treat it like it's my job.

835

:

I treat it like this is the

the life I've chosen to live.

836

:

You know?

837

:

This is okay.

838

:

You know, it's not like that's.

839

:

It's just that I don't go extreme

as I used to do before.

840

:

You know, if I need to lose weight,

I'm not going to go and starve myself.

841

:

I'm going to do it more steadily.

842

:

And then in the same time,

I'm never going to gain

843

:

that much in your in the off season

or like in the period where I have off

844

:

because I don't have these cravings

or it is actually.

845

:

Yeah, it is a balance.

846

:

When you go too much on one way,

then it's like a bounce back effect.

847

:

And I think that's

that's how I would manage it more.

848

:

You know,

849

:

now in the off season, I

850

:

yeah, I, I, I don't,

851

:

I allow myself what I want really

but I also

852

:

it's just I enjoy, you know, being healthy

I enjoy I enjoyed to sometimes,

853

:

you know, I have a drink

or eat some like cheat meals or all

854

:

that kind of stuff, but,

at the same time, I think it's just

855

:

leading a healthy life.

856

:

I like this, you know,

and at the end of the day is just

857

:

and was more than just a job is also

is also a way of life and a

858

:

I enjoy it,

I enjoy, you know, going out for training.

859

:

And I think that's also maybe the key

for a longer career.

860

:

Now, you know, if you were constantly,

861

:

constantly stressed in and

862

:

you're worried about everything and

863

:

you take this to the extreme,

that's that's one

864

:

it's going to be hard

for the longevity of your career or even.

865

:

Yeah, you know,

but I agree now is is a bit

866

:

more extreme like the racing from January.

867

:

If you don't want to perform, you already

have to be in really good shape already.

868

:

You have to be lean maybe.

869

:

Yeah.

870

:

Like you say, two kilos is okay

is a bit on the limit.

871

:

You know, one kilo from your top shape

872

:

from the start of the season

and you kind of have to.

873

:

Yeah. To keep working hard.

874

:

But at the same time,

I think you still have to.

875

:

Yeah.

876

:

Keep a little bit of this last squeeze

to be there and.

877

:

Yeah, it's.

878

:

Yeah it's

what I also learn from other races.

879

:

You know you can see

880

:

riders that are

881

:

really no consistent

throughout the season.

882

:

They are actually really good.

883

:

Are managing in this way I think.

884

:

Well, for me, one

actually good example is that, yeah.

885

:

You know, you you manage this really well.

886

:

He is super professional,

but at the same time, you know, he

887

:

he knows how to enjoy, like,

a good glass of wine and, and.

888

:

Yeah, it's

just like adding this balance of both.

889

:

And I think that's when you,

you can keep it for the whole season

890

:

that from time to time

891

:

you allow yourself something

and you don't go to these extremes.

892

:

It's just trying to, to, to

to be too crazy.

893

:

Of course, before a big, big goal

like the tour, like

894

:

there's like one month in before this,

you were really honest.

895

:

You're in, you're

in, you're on the mission.

896

:

But then you can relax and actually.

897

:

Yeah, it's it's about just.

898

:

Yeah. Staying, staying.

899

:

Don't go. Don't go too crazy.

900

:

Wow Jensie he just said that

you don't want to go two kilos over.

901

:

One kilo over is enough crap.

902

:

When we used to race

903

:

what guys would come six, seven,

ten kilos heavier sometimes, right.

904

:

Yeah. And talk about.

905

:

Talk about the extremes and talk about

not being able to find the balance.

906

:

I think, a lot of guys in our generation

had that.

907

:

But we're getting close to the end.

908

:

But I have two questions that came to me

from a local junior rider.

909

:

They don't have to be the longest

answers, but he was curious enough to.

910

:

When I told them that you were coming on

the podcast, he had two questions.

911

:

So number one is

what is the biggest change

912

:

in your training

since when you started as a junior?

913

:

Until now?

914

:

Well, actually, I think

915

:

for the juniors now it's it's less

I think they already train like,

916

:

you know the all they are full

the knowledge that we have sometimes even

917

:

more sometimes you speak to the young guys

and they know more than you.

918

:

For me, what is this?

919

:

I think it's just. Yeah.

920

:

Night and day.

I didn't have a power meter then.

921

:

I was training with heartrate.

922

:

I knew nothing about,

what I know now about the nutrition.

923

:

Also about the training.

924

:

I was just riding, doing some efforts

here and there, and

925

:

and. Yeah.

926

:

I it's just crazy.

927

:

I think just all the knowledge we have

now about the different zones, about,

928

:

which zones is good for

what's and also fuelling

929

:

in 190g an hour and,

930

:

the ratio fructose,

931

:

fructose, glucose, always kind is just,

yeah, it's actually also part of a job

932

:

to start, like, studying all this stuff

and, Yeah, it's just.

933

:

Yeah. Yeah. Has progressed.

934

:

Yeah.

935

:

Just tremendous amount of,

So it's actually not

936

:

I think it's nice in a way,

also having all this progression,

937

:

but I guess with more in

cycling is also impossible.

938

:

Yeah.

939

:

It's I don't see like if you're,

if you're a junior,

940

:

you already need to know all this and

train like this if you want to perform.

941

:

So it's just a different generation,

I think.

942

:

Yeah.

943

:

If you guys and boys

feel better than me. So.

944

:

Yeah, it's, it's how the, the sports

goes. We.

945

:

Okay, so second part of the question,

because you kind of touched on it

946

:

and your team has made this,

947

:

zone two training famous.

948

:

So his next question was,

949

:

do you look more at your wattage,

your zone to wattage or your zone

950

:

two heart rate and,

and how important is it to stay

951

:

in that zone two heart rate?

952

:

I look for the wattage,

953

:

but in combination

with the heart rate, because,

954

:

sometimes maybe on some

955

:

days you, you can see that your,

956

:

your heart rate

is, is too high or something.

957

:

And,

you just have to back off a little bit.

958

:

Maybe you're not in. Good day,

959

:

but, yeah, mostly

960

:

the wattage, but I think the heart rate

is really important as well.

961

:

You can also see if you're fatigued,

you know,

962

:

if your heart rate is a bit suppressed.

963

:

So, I think it's a combination of both.

964

:

We have a lot of metrics.

965

:

Nowadays, to, to measure this,

I think, to, to really know

966

:

better if you are in

the zone is to, to measure your lactate.

967

:

But obviously you cannot do this,

968

:

like all the time in, in every day. So,

969

:

yeah, it's a combination of both, really,

970

:

I think I think you, you

you have to learn how to use both metrics.

971

:

And I think they're, they're both very.

972

:

Yeah. Really important to look at.

973

:

And, it's just also

974

:

to understand your own body, you know,

actually to know what also to to

975

:

when to back off for when to,

976

:

when you a bit maybe not too fresh,

but when you're fresh, you know,

977

:

when the heart rate is higher

and is always a good sign.

978

:

And when it's the opposite,

then it's always bad sign.

979

:

So yeah, I think is working

both is so it's

980

:

I would say.

981

:

I want to have as my last question

a non cycling question.

982

:

Please tell tell us, our listeners

983

:

and viewers just a little secret

or a habit or hobby of yours.

984

:

What do you do in your free time.

985

:

Tell us like something

nobody would know except of us telling.

986

:

Now you go fishing.

987

:

You go motorbike riding

or you like cooking.

988

:

You reading books? What type of books?

989

:

Something that nobody would know

until today.

990

:

Well, I think there is not, like,

a secret, really.

991

:

I don't know the secret of hobby,

but I really.

992

:

I really like cooking when I'm home.

993

:

And, I also really like coffee.

994

:

But, Yeah, well, my team-mate, but like,

my team-mates noticed, you know, always,

995

:

like, with me, always have, like, my my

kettle and, like, my little coffee set up.

996

:

I bring it everywhere on races

or on holidays and

997

:

always look for different beans here

998

:

and there and try to buy some beans

from different roasters around the world.

999

:

So yeah, I quite enjoy this.

:

00:53:11,021 --> 00:53:12,898

This is one one hobby of me. I would say

:

00:53:14,858 --> 00:53:15,942

that's cool and

:

00:53:15,942 --> 00:53:18,987

very common in the world of professional

cycling, right?

:

00:53:18,987 --> 00:53:20,780

We like our food and we like our coffees.

:

00:53:20,780 --> 00:53:23,783

So you pick some pretty darn good hobbies

there.

:

00:53:24,618 --> 00:53:28,246

Well, thank you so much

for coming on the odd tandem today.

:

00:53:28,246 --> 00:53:31,750

Really appreciate you spending some

a little bit of your offseason.

:

00:53:31,750 --> 00:53:35,295

It doesn't sound like you're going

to have one for for very long when you're

:

00:53:35,587 --> 00:53:37,214

taken off to another camp here soon.

:

00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:40,967

But thank you so much for coming on

and sharing your story and your knowledge

:

00:53:40,967 --> 00:53:43,970

with us, our viewers and our listeners.

:

00:53:45,138 --> 00:53:45,764

No worries.

:

00:53:45,764 --> 00:53:48,767

My pleasure has been a pleasure.

:

00:53:48,975 --> 00:53:50,477

That's everything for this week.

:

00:53:50,477 --> 00:53:54,689

Now please

remember to follow us at Oddtandem.

:

00:53:54,898 --> 00:54:00,528

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:

00:54:00,820 --> 00:54:03,114

Thanks to Pavel for joining the podcast.

:

00:54:03,114 --> 00:54:06,618

Also remember, if you want to see

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:

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.