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Published on:

4th Oct 2024

Jamie Whitmore: From Cancer Survivor to Paralympic Champion

Jamie Whitmore was dominant in her Xterra, offroad triathlon's elite series. She won 37 races, 6 national titles and a world championship on her way to a position in the sport's hall of fame. After a pain in her leg wouldn't cease, she sought treatment, where doctors discovered spindle cell sarcoma, a form of cancer that attacked her sciatic nerve.

She was lucky to survive cancer and complications from surgery. But the battle had left her with extremely limited mobility in one leg and drop foot. Jamie turned her hand at cycling and became an 11 time world champion, and a paralympic champion.

She spoke to Bobby and Jens about her journey through sport, her battle against cancer, and what the changes she wants the UCI to implement in paracycling.

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Transcript
Speaker:

It was one of those things

that just, like, lit a fire under me.

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Okay, well, I gotta

I gotta learn to walk again.

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Now. I gotta learn to ride a bike,

which was not easy.

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Hello. And welcome back to the Odd Tandem.

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Our guest today is a Hall of Fame

and world champion Xterra athlete.

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And after a battle with cancer,

she is now a World

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and Paralympic champion

on both the road and track.

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as a C3 competitor.

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Jens every once in a while

we have amazing guests, but the energy

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and the competitiveness of our guests

today was exemplary.

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What do you think?

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You took the words right out of my mouth.

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That was the two things.

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I also noticed immediately

how much energy she is having and how open

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and freely she talked about this life

threatening struggle that she had.

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You know, in her experience

with fighting cancer,

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how long it took her to come back,

to learn to walk again,

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to learn to ride a bike again.

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And now she's a Paralympic athlete.

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It's a fantastic journey

and I'm so glad we could be part of it.

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And she explained us the entire journey.

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So sit back, relax and listen to our great

interview with Jamie Whitmore.

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All right, Jamie Whitmore,

welcome to the odd tandem.

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Oh, thanks for having me.

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Well,

you know, you've been a little bit busy.

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Can you actually tell us

where you've been or

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where you just got back from?

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Because it sounded pretty.

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Pretty interesting.

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I've been gone for six weeks.

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I started in Mallorca for a training camp,

went over to Paris for the Paralympics.

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Then it was off to Normandy

with my family, Engelberg and

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then Zurich, Switzerland, for the World

Championships and then the white House.

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That's what I want to hear about.

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Tell me about the white House. Visit.

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You know, this is my second time

going with team USA.

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I missed I missed the year Tokyo

because we were racing.

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They did a combined, summer, winter,

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sports team, team USA thing.

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So, I would say

it was a pretty epic experience.

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It was a lot better than what

I remember from Rio

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where we they came in

and you did an athlete summit.

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I missed that day

because I was still racing in Zurich.

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And then the next day we woke

up, went to the white House.

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You get a nice, cool

tour of the white House

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where you see different aspects of it

and hang out with your fellow Olympians

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and Paralympians, and then they

they finally listen to these bleachers.

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They bring out the president.

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He had a pretty funny speech.

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And then afterwards, I think he was just

going to shake a few people's hands,

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and he ended up spending so much time

by taking selfies with us,

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shaking our hands

and talking that it was pretty cool.

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I got my my,

presidential selfie with him,

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and I believe it's for every American.

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A special honor

to go to the white House, right?

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I mean, me from a Europe I'm not sure of.

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Actually, our government

does it to invite, the Olympics,

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or the Olympic,

athletes into the Bundestag.

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But it's a pretty special

occasion, isn't it?

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Yeah, it.

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I feel like no matter what political party

you affiliate with or whatever,

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that it's the greatest honor

to be able to go

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and meet the sitting president

and just see the white House.

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I mean, it's no Buckingham Palace or,

Versailles with all the gold and stuff,

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but it's still one of those, like,

just pieces of our history.

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And then again, how many people

get to take a selfie with the president?

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Yeah, that's pretty cool.

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I got to go to the 2004 Olympics,

and I must have missed

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that whole trip to the white House thing,

but, yeah, I mean,

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so you're just back from Zurich,

where you had you earn two, two medals,

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a silver in the time trial

and a bronze in the road race.

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Tell us about that experience.

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This was the second time that we've

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that pair of cycling has been integrated

with able bodied cycling.

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We did Glasgow last year

which was the super world though.

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So you had all these different disciplines

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and we kind of felt

like we were the redheaded stepchild.

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That they stuck us way in this corner

had nothing to do with with road

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or anything.

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And going to Zurich this year,

where the finish line

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was the exact same finish line for

everyone, and then we just had different

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starting points.

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I feel that

the UCI did the best kind of coverage

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and integration that I've seen since

I've been in this sport for 12 years,

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and it was really cool

to be able to see the juniors,

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which is kind of the future of of cycling,

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along with all of the elites like Chloe

and Kristen Faulkner, like to be able

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to just see them in passing

or their awards was right before ours.

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That was just it's

just one of the cool things and solidifies

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the growth of para cycling

and where we are like,

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we're not a participation sport, we are.

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We are just as competitive

as our able bodied counterparts.

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We just have disabilities.

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Before we actually go

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further into

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how do you get there about your history,

we got this little quick fire

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question thing for questions,

and you have to pick one of em.

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Okay? Okay.

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TT or road race, road race,

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TV night or night out

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TV night.

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Road cycling or track cycling.

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Road or cycling.

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Xterra or cycling.

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Xterra.

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That was a clear answer.

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Well, we're going to get to that

a little bit later,

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but can you just kind of clear up for

for our viewers and our listeners

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the different categories of para cycling

and maybe

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fill us in a little bit so that we know

exactly what we're talking about here?

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Okay. Yeah.

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So for para cycling

there are 13 men's categories and women's.

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We have the trike category which has two.

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And that's where you ride

this three wheeled up upright bike.

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So it's kind of like a recumbent.

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But but it's the height is like mine.

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And then there's two wheels in the back.

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Then you have the tandem.

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And that is where the stoker

is visually impaired.

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And then the pilot, can fully see, which

I hope because they're leading the train.

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Then you have five hand cycle categories,

which is considered H.

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It's the one through five,

the five being the more able

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bodied nailers where they cycle like that.

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And then the ones are your most disabled,

wheelchair athletes.

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Like they're, they're you generally

they're always quads.

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Then you have five of the C categories

which rides

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we ride on normal bikes

just like you guys.

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But we might have different adaptations

for missing a limb,

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cerebral palsy or some sort of, like,

traumatic brain injury.

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Someone might be missing hands,

but again, the number five.

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So a C5 is your most able bodied.

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So they probably are missing their hand

or an arm.

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And then your C1 is your most disabled

and generally has multiple things.

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So they might be missing

like an arm and a leg or

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have some sort of paralysis in there,

but they can still ride an upright.

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So I'm a C3.

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I'm smack dab in the middle

where my left leg is impaired.

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I have I have a left leg, but

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it's so impaired

that it just puts me into that category.

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I'm missing a glute and a hamstring,

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so. And,

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well, then I

guess the next logical question would be,

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you were an extra athlete before

in the Hall of Fame,

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and and now, how how do you get

how do we get here?

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How was it to travel or the adventure to,

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to get to this point here now,

how did it go?

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What what happened

to, our viewers and listeners?

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So I was competing for about eight years

as a professional

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Xterra athlete, which is off road

triathlons and also a mountain biker.

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I did do that, but I only made my way up

to like, fifth in the nation.

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And, in 2007,

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at our World Championships,

I noticed something was wrong with my leg.

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And so over the next six months,

it was trying to figure out what was

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causing me excruciating pain in my leg

because it it continued to get worse.

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Turns out it was called

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a spindle cell sarcoma,

which was growing out of my sciatic nerve.

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Most people know sarcomas as osteosarcoma

comas, which are in your bone.

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Well, mine was in my nerve, so it was

I mean, it was.

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I can't even describe the pain.

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If you were to ask me

on a scale of 1 to 10, it was a 20.

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And when they removed the tumor,

they had to remove a section

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of my sciatic nerve, which you need

your sciatic nerve to control your foot.

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It's what makes your foot move

and your leg.

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When they removed that I have had

a condition was called droplet,

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which meant everything below

my knee was paralyzed.

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I had no hamstring

and then then the tumor came back.

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I had another surgery and they removed

my entire glute glute muscle.

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So most most of my left leg doesn't work.

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But I'm lucky

because my knee can still bend

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and I still have like three quarters

of my quad functioning.

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So I can I can in the pedal stroke.

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If you think about your normal leg

where all your muscles engage,

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if you're if you're pedaling correctly,

I only have part of my quad

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on the left leg,

so it so it doesn't always engage.

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So you'll if you watch me

I have this little waddle.

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But when I learned of all of this,

I learned I would never run again.

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Swimming. My foot just kind of drags.

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So naturally gravitating towards cycling,

which I just have such a love for.

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Mountain biking,

that that was where I began to excel

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again and fine and found my second

career for the Paralympics.

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And I mean, that's

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got to be a hard transition,

going from an able

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bodied athlete and then having something

like this happened.

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How was that transition for you?

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I think I think any any transition

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where, yes, you were this full, full blown

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healthy, just everything worked

fine kind of athlete.

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Right at the highest level

that you could be.

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I had ambitions to win like 50 world,

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you know, 50 championship

races, more world championship races.

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To have that cut short to have cancer

kind of dictate, no, you're never going to

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do this kind of racing again

was in and of itself a very hard thing.

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But I'm also a person that will look at

where's the positive, what can I still do?

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So learning learning that there, there

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could be the second possibility

to be a Paralympic athlete.

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Great that others had paved the way

for people with disabilities that you

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I could have a second chance.

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Essentially, it was one of those things

that just like lit

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a fire under me to, okay, well, I gotta

I gotta learn to walk again.

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Now I got to learn to ride a bike,

which was not easy to, you know, you

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I knew how I used to ride

and then now to ride.

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It was, it was kind of frustrating,

but at the same time it was like freedom.

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I am riding a bike.

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I am doing this on my own.

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When I had been so confined

to not being able to run anymore,

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having to learn to walk with a walker

and then a cane, that there were these

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freedoms

and type of independence that I got back.

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When I ride a bike,

like I don't feel as disabled

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when I ride a bike as I do

when I'm just everyday walking,

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somewhere

in the middle of of all that happening,

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you also became a mother of twin twin

boys, I believe.

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How did that go?

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Was it like, yeah, this is so awesome.

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And like, it was some light at at the

at the tunnel or

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it was, it was it

was it planned if I'm allowed to ask

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or did it help you to transition and go,

hey, there's another purpose in my life.

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I'm a mother now.

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Well, so if you know the whole story of

of how things went down.

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No, I was incredibly terrified to find out

I was pregnant.

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It was not planned.

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It was.

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I was going in for a third surgery to have

my kidney moved to auto transplanted.

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Yeah, because.

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So here's the deal.

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I lived through two, two cancer surgeries,

but then I got sepsis

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after the second one

and I had a bone infection.

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I had all these issues from complications

and was living with this drain

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out of my kidney.

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And and then it was finally time

to get that drain out

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so I could ride a bike again. Right?

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That was always my thing is,

I wanted to get back on a bike.

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And right before that surgery,

I had one last hurrah because we knew

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for some reason, every time I had

surgeries, I'd be like laid up for months.

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And so it was this one last hurrah.

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I go in for surgery

and it must have been, was it?

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I think it was like two weeks

after that surgery,

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I started feeling kind of awful,

but I didn't have a fever or anything.

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And then.

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And then two more weeks passed

and I still was just like, no energy.

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It was hard to hold food down.

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So the doctors began to worry

that maybe my kidney, something was wrong

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with the location because it was in my

right pelvic area now.

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So I went into an E.R.

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expecting to hear, like, the worst.

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Your cancer's

back. It's spread to your stomach.

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Or, like, all these weird things or no,

your kidney can't be here.

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We got to remove it again,

and the air comes in to me.

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After I was there for, like, 13 hours.

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And I was not kind at this point

because I was just frustrated with life.

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And she says,

we know what's wrong with you.

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And I looked at her like, what?

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And she says, you're pregnant.

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And I looked back at her and said, heart,

because it had completely escaped,

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that I had had this one time hurrah

with my husband

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and and she looks at me like,

do I really need to explain this to you?

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And I said, no, you need

you need to test me again.

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This can't be possible.

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So they tested me again

and she says, no, you're still pregnant.

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But then we realized, I had been

I had been

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probably three days

pregnant during my surgery.

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I had had x rays.

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I was on medications,

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so they had to go now test

to make sure it was a viable pregnancy.

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And when they were doing the ultrasound,

I really didn't know what I wanted to hear

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because I was just terrified

I hadn't even been a year cancer free.

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I hadn't really adjusted

to being disabled at this point.

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And now you're telling me, like,

I'm going to be a mom?

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I just want to ride my bike again.

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And so I go in

and they're doing an ultrasound, and and

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I was all by myself because they wouldn't

let anybody else be in there.

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And the guy looks at me and says,

oh, yeah, no, it's a viable pregnancy.

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And by the way, you're having twins.

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And I died like I died.

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I was just like, that's it. I'm not.

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I'm not trying to get on a bike anymore.

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And and I'm a person of huge faith.

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So I basically looked at God and said,

you know, you're really funny.

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And now I've learned, that

when I, I'll get back on the bike

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when he wants me to get back on the bike.

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So then it was a series of like

being pregnant and having complications.

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And then having twins

and not knowing what the heck I was doing.

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So yeah,

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that that

that's a lot to take in at at one time.

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And you obviously passed that test,

but I've heard you say

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cycling like you wanted to get back

on, on the bicycle.

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So what what do you think drove

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you to get back on, on the bike.

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And then you had so many disciplines.

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You've been a track,

a rider on the track, on the road.

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You said that you love mountain biking.

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You know, as an able bodied athlete,

I have the same feeling

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like I want to ride my bike

when things are going a little sour.

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Like I go out on a bike ride

and I feel a little bit better.

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But.

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Yeah.

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What what was it for you

that just drove you to to cycling?

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What?

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I mean, my passion

has always been cycling and running

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like I grew up

or through all of high school.

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I was a collegiate runner, and I loved.

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I loved the feel of the wind

and the smells of the outdoor

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and especially, say, mountain

biking and trail running.

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It's like you just the smell of pine and

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and the dirt when the mist

and the dew happened in the morning.

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I mean, those are all. And it's peaceful.

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It's quiet

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because I'm, I would usually be writing

or running so early in the morning.

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And when running was taken away,

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I didn't want to dwell

on what I couldn't do anymore.

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So there was this drive

to what I'm going to ride again.

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I also have to tell you

my my nerve doctor had said, well, maybe,

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maybe you'll write a stationary bike

and and that wasn't good enough for me.

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I didn't want to be confined

to some indoor bike unless I had to.

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And so it was trying to prove that doctor

wrong of, oh, no, I'll show you.

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I'm going to be a mountain biker again.

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But there's just, there's

there's a feeling when you're on the road,

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it's like you can just check out

and you can ride.

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I mean, as long as it's safe,

I still have to watch for cars and stuff,

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but when you're mountain biking,

it's also the sense of accomplishment

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of clearing a roof garden

or coming off of a drop.

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And that was always my measure of how

well I was doing

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when I was a pro mountain biker was

did I clear this section?

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Because that's that's

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the oddity of mountain biking, is

you can ride the same thing five times

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and one time you don't make it,

or one time

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you do, and the other four times

you kind of fail that section.

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And so there's this measure of success

that I was always driven by, and I just,

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I just love it.

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I love being outdoors.

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And the fact of it took three years.

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So from the day

I was diagnosed with cancer

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until I finally rode again, it was

it was three years.

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And I will tell you one thing.

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When I raced as a pro, there were days

that it was sometimes hard.

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Hard to train.

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Like you're just like,

oh, I got to do that workout today.

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And I dreaded it

the day that I started riding again

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in 2011, I have I have never had a day

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that I didn't want to be out on my bike,

even if I didn't like the workout.

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It was one of those

what the great Bill Walton always said.

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I get to ride my bike today, and

I've never forgotten that for 12 years.

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Every day it's I get to ride my bike.

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Today. So

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yeah,

I had the honor to know Bill as well.

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He's a he was a great, great, great guy.

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I liked him, his wisdom,

how he was like easy with his life.

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Happy

that I had the chance, to know him.

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On the way back to,

the bike was your first bike.

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A stationary bike, I suppose.

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And then you went on one of them

tricycles.

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And did it feel like a victory to you

when you finally got.

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Okay, I'm back on a normal

two wheeled bike.

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How was that feeling the first day

on back on that bike out there

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in the on the road, in the wildness.

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My actual first ride back

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once I got, an AFO

which is an ankle foot orthotic.

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It was something that would allow my foot

to to be able

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to push down on the pedal

because it made my legs stiff enough.

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When the first ride

I actually did was on the back of a tandem

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with my ex-husband, and that,

and that was, oh my gosh.

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I remember when he showed up from work

because I had to wait for him.

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I had just gotten that afro

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I put, like, if you knew me from Xterra,

I used to have these race braids.

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I had race braids on.

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I put my Michelin jersey

on, I was fully kitted up, had my helmet

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and I was waiting.

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So he bust out the tandem.

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I got on the back and he said, you know,

we're just going to go out for like

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20 minutes.

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And I said,

oh no, we're riding for an hour.

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And and we did.

372

:

We, I had it ridden for three years

and we went and rode for a full hour.

373

:

And it was the best way to explain

it was freedom.

374

:

I mean, it was I just didn't feel confined

375

:

and I had the feel of fresh air again.

376

:

And I was writing

and I had the hugest smile

377

:

and you couldn't wipe that smile off.

378

:

Two days later, I went on my very own solo

mountain bike ride,

379

:

and I had three friends

that came along and,

380

:

that was in and of itself an experience

I didn't fall over on downhills,

381

:

I fell over on uphills

because I was just so weak, and

382

:

I didn't have the ability to navigate over

certain technical things that I used to.

383

:

And so all of a sudden I just fall over,

and then I would be stuck in on my,

384

:

on my left side, and someone would have to

come over and snap my foot out,

385

:

and they'd run the bike up for me.

386

:

I drag my leg and then they'd

help me get back on, and I'd ride.

387

:

And I rode for like two hours that day,

and it was amazing.

388

:

And after that, there was no stopping me.

389

:

Like I, I had learned,

I learned that mountain biking,

390

:

I always have to be with someone because

if I do fall over, I can get stuck.

391

:

And so someone needs to be there

to just kind of help me unclip my leg.

392

:

But, I mean, I do solo rides all the time

on the road and I'm totally fine.

393

:

So it started with mountain biking

394

:

and then obviously progressed to the road

and then to track.

395

:

I mean,

those are three different disciplines.

396

:

Tell me a little bit about the transition

from one to the next.

397

:

And were you

do you prefer one over the other?

398

:

Actually,

399

:

I'd say so.

400

:

The transition to road was pretty easy,

right?

401

:

I like I, I loved that a lot because

I didn't need anyone to be with me.

402

:

The transition to track

was flippin terrifying.

403

:

And my coach, Neal Neal Henderson,

the first time I got on the track,

404

:

you have to understand,

was, was Carson, LA.

405

:

So if you've if you've never been there

to me it's one of the hardest tracks.

406

:

It's like it's like shaped like a hot dog

and it's like death defying leap

407

:

straight up.

408

:

And I showed up in 2000 and gosh,

409

:

was it 13 to nationals

and Neal Henderson was there.

410

:

And he kept saying, Jamie, you

you raced professional mountain biking.

411

:

This is nothing compared to that.

412

:

And I looked at him and said, mountain

bikes have brakes, there's no brakes.

413

:

And it's a fixed gear.

414

:

Like I don't know what I'm doing,

but I remember literally shaking.

415

:

But then I had made

I somehow miraculously like race

416

:

one, earned a spot onto the world team

417

:

going to 2014

and Andy Sparks had come in and come in

418

:

and taken over our program,

and he was fantastic.

419

:

Like, he really taught me how

to be confident on the track, what to do.

420

:

And I still,

I think on Carson would get nervous, but I

421

:

but I honestly tried to hone

in on those mountain bike skills

422

:

and I would always tell myself,

you race mountain bike, you can do this.

423

:

But as for which one do I like?

424

:

Each one has like this special uniqueness

425

:

about it, like racing a track is hard.

426

:

It's scary being in the in the gate

and not wanting to screw anything up

427

:

when you come out, but at the same time

being able to like, race as hard

428

:

as you can, as fast as you can for less

than a minute race or a four minute

429

:

race is so cool

and and it just feels neat.

430

:

Like just feeling that wind

when you're all tucked

431

:

into your aero position

with your our helmet.

432

:

I love that feeling. And then road racing.

433

:

I love because it's that combination

between playing chess and poker,

434

:

where you're trying to pretend

like you don't hurt

435

:

when you really do, trying to anticipate

what others are going to do.

436

:

And it's it's not always about

who the best racer is, it?

437

:

Who's the smartest racer? It's that day.

438

:

And then mountain biking.

439

:

I just love because it's challenging

every you can ride the same trail

440

:

five days in a row and something.

441

:

You'll find some new aspect of it.

442

:

So, you know, I would say true and true

though mountain biking is my favorite

443

:

because there's no cars.

444

:

Yep, I can totally agree to that.

445

:

No cost makes it a lot more relaxed.

446

:

Hey, maybe I go a little more specific.

447

:

For our viewers and listeners.

448

:

At the last Olympics in Paris, how

long was your racing distance on the road?

449

:

And how long is a typical race

for you on the track for you category?

450

:

Is it in minutes

or one mile or 3 or 4 or one kilometer?

451

:

How long is your racing?

452

:

So for my category, we're just under

four minutes in the three K pursuit.

453

:

And then the 500 is generally right around

454

:

40s for the road race.

455

:

This is where we kind of get gypped,

where I feel like UCI

456

:

doesn't understand what we're capable of.

457

:

Like just because we have disabilities

458

:

doesn't mean

we aren't capable of doing more.

459

:

And so it's only like a nine mile race.

460

:

We, we we used to have a lot more 12 mile

time trials.

461

:

And now they've been cutting a short

and it's between 9 and 10.

462

:

But I will say in Paris

they did give us a nice technical one.

463

:

So that made it that made up for dogging

us in distances and then the road races.

464

:

This is again where it sucks.

465

:

I feel like there should be more.

466

:

It should be more about your fitness and

endurance when it comes to a road race.

467

:

And we should never have less

than a two hour to 2.5 hour race.

468

:

And I swear most of our races

are like an hour and a half.

469

:

They're 30 miles long, and to me,

470

:

that's not a true test of who

an endurance athlete is.

471

:

And they definitely should be technical

with Hills always.

472

:

So I'd say we

definitely got gypped there again, too.

473

:

And the same thing happened in Zurich.

474

:

I watched all the elites get to do this.

475

:

Awesome, awesome,

476

:

like uphill climb

and then this gnarly descent, which.

477

:

Hello, mountain biker

here. I would have loved that.

478

:

And then they put us on this out and back.

479

:

That just went o'clock, along the river

and was nine miles long.

480

:

So, yeah, our, our test can be anywhere

from 20 minutes to 30 minutes.

481

:

To give you perspective,

it's not very long.

482

:

So how can we change that?

483

:

How can

what would it take for me for the parallel

484

:

Paralympic athletes

to be happy with the distances?

485

:

Is it

486

:

it sounds like they're kind of dictating

what you do.

487

:

And you say that you can do more.

488

:

So what

what can the athletes do to change that?

489

:

Well, that's I think so I became a U.S

490

:

rep to try and find that out

491

:

more like, how do we start speaking,

being the voice of athletes and talking.

492

:

And we have a you

we have two UCI athlete reps.

493

:

But I feel like athlete reps don't.

494

:

It doesn't mean anything.

495

:

It's more of they tell you, yes,

496

:

you have this position

and you have a voice, but you don't.

497

:

I think it's

I don't know because when I sat in a room

498

:

for the first time in Belgium at our World

Cup this year, we did an athlete meeting

499

:

and I heard more and more athletes

of all different disciplines complaining

500

:

about the same thing of we want harder

courses, we want longer courses.

501

:

And so we're trying to figure out

how to organize, like

502

:

essentially to have a union

and be able to speak up out to UCI.

503

:

But but I think UCI is like, well,

we already have all these disciplines.

504

:

So we just don't we just

I don't know, for lack of a better word.

505

:

We just don't care

or it's not going to happen

506

:

because their focus is elite.

507

:

And so I don't I don't know, it's

508

:

maybe it's

maybe people who have names like, well,

509

:

names kind of speaking up

and helping to push this movement.

510

:

Or maybe it's requiring

that UCI have more athlete

511

:

people on their board,

you know, more former athletes

512

:

that will take the time

to listen to what we we would like.

513

:

And you would think you

514

:

need to address that to the UCI

or the, to the Olympic Committee

515

:

or to the IPC that

the International Paralympic Committee.

516

:

I think it's a combination of both,

I think.

517

:

I don't know,

I just think right now it's run by

518

:

so many people that aren't, especially

when it comes to like Paralympics.

519

:

It's being run by able bodied people

that don't understand.

520

:

They don't understand

what we're capable of.

521

:

It's the same with classification,

which is,

522

:

I mean, dare I even say it,

that's a whole new bottle of worms

523

:

that I'm not sure

we have time to even open up on here, but

524

:

I know if you've had other Paralympic

athletes, like, you'll know,

525

:

but there's there's just this issue

where you have a lot of able bodied people

526

:

dictating what we do, and I mean, it's

even running our programs.

527

:

It's a lot of able bodied people,

and they don't

528

:

they don't understand

what we're capable of.

529

:

And and I think on the flip side, it's

530

:

hard for them to argue with others

about what we can do

531

:

and can't do, because then they'll just

say, well, you don't know.

532

:

You know what I mean?

533

:

But I am starting to say, see,

other countries have more people

534

:

with disabilities and former athletes

running their programs.

535

:

And I think that that makes their program

more successful because they they know,

536

:

like they know

what each category represents.

537

:

So I,

538

:

you know,

I think just we just keep speaking out.

539

:

That's all you can do.

540

:

But again,

541

:

mountain biking

seems to be like a mega passion of yours.

542

:

And there's no category for this

in the Paralympics.

543

:

Do you think there's a pathway

for mountain

544

:

biking to be included in the

in future games?

545

:

I talked with a former competitor of mine

in a former mountain bike

546

:

competitor of mine

who does work for the UCI,

547

:

and she was like, oh yeah, I doubt

mountain biking will ever happen,

548

:

but maybe, maybe gravel,

gravel racing might happen.

549

:

I think the tricky part

about mountain biking is that if you're

550

:

looking at all the disciplines,

two wheelers love single track and I.

551

:

I am a two Wheeler.

I love my shingle track.

552

:

I don't like,

you know, wide open gravel roads.

553

:

I want all the technical aspects of that.

554

:

But to put a three Wheeler

on a mountain bike,

555

:

they would need more gravel type racing.

556

:

Like they can't be on the same

single track that a two Wheeler can.

557

:

So I think it does pose complications of

if we just have everything open

558

:

gravel, it's not fun for the two wheelers,

but if you only do

559

:

single track, then it's not accessible

to the three bowlers.

560

:

So we'd be dealing with those issues.

561

:

So and I think UCI knows that.

562

:

And so it's like, let's just stick to

if we're going to introduce

563

:

something,

let's just do gravel. It'd be easier.

564

:

And just to the

565

:

point you mentioned before, we had,

566

:

Sarah Storey at, the Paris

567

:

Olympics saying, hey, look, you shorten

our, our races and that's not fair.

568

:

And just like you said,

she felt like that passport or a woman's

569

:

passport is a little bit,

Yeah, we think about it when we have time.

570

:

It's, you know, a

there should be a little more attention

571

:

or respect for that, that,

572

:

athletes

like you just said they're able to do

573

:

actually a little longer distances

than people might think.

574

:

So, she was right there in what users

said.

575

:

Yeah.

576

:

And she and we've had extensive

talks as well about this.

577

:

And it women I would say women in para.

578

:

Yes, are even at more of a disadvantage.

579

:

It's it's like

580

:

it's like these organizations say

your sport needs to grow right.

581

:

If you want more, but then they don't

give the room for the growth.

582

:

And I'll give you an example.

583

:

I started racing 12 years ago.

584

:

My first Paralympics was Rio.

585

:

We were allowed 70 women's cyclists

586

:

in into all of the Paralympics

587

:

there are 13 categories and we'll

we'll just say a few of them are combined.

588

:

Again,

that's a whole more complicated process.

589

:

But only allowing 70 athletes

in female athletes

590

:

doesn't even cover ten per category.

591

:

Now you have to look at there's four races

that they can do,

592

:

two on the track, two on the road.

593

:

Not everybody does all four events, right.

594

:

Like a track rider can only do two events

and cycles can only do two.

595

:

So two wheelers are the only ones

that are offered four events.

596

:

But then hand cycles can kind of

do the relay.

597

:

But the point being 70 women,

598

:

do you want to know how much

they increased that for Tokyo and Paris?

599

:

Ten women.

600

:

So we were allowed 80 women athletes.

601

:

That still doesn't cover ten per category.

602

:

If you want the sport to grow,

you have to allow more women to compete.

603

:

And so that's where it starts.

604

:

Start letting more people start

letting the category, the courses

605

:

be more difficult.

606

:

Let the courses be longer.

607

:

But it's like, listen to us,

608

:

don't just do your like,

you know how UCI is.

609

:

They're all about their rules.

610

:

They're all about their measurements.

611

:

And then like you need to fit in this box

in para doesn't like

612

:

let us have seats at the table

and start to like push for more.

613

:

That's all I'm asking.

614

:

If you got a hire more than fine,

charge us more to like

615

:

to have like more entry fees or something

that will allow more participants.

616

:

I don't know, I don't have the answer

617

:

because I don't

I don't know what the holdup is.

618

:

Right?

619

:

Like,

why doesn't UCI want us to grow more?

620

:

Why aren't they allowing us 150 athletes

and allowing 200 men athletes?

621

:

I don't know when we don't know

these things.

622

:

Yeah, just a quick comment

before Bobby asked the next question.

623

:

Me, as a father of six,

I feel like with the school system

624

:

here in Germany,

people running the school system, I'm 53.

625

:

Yeah, at least 20 years older than me.

626

:

They haven't seen a school

from the inside for 50 years,

627

:

and they tell me how to school for my kid.

628

:

Should be for what? Today? No. Right.

629

:

And that's what you see.

630

:

I also need to do have more young people,

more zealots and more para athletes.

631

:

So they actually talk to the real source

of information

632

:

to the people

that are within that problem.

633

:

And then they can say, hello, I think this

and this, this is what we need.

634

:

And then you see,

I can see, okay, this is possible.

635

:

This is maybe, but this we cannot do.

636

:

But at least right,

have better communications.

637

:

Right. And that's how I feel

with our school system here as well.

638

:

And I think I can feel your frustration.

639

:

But Bobby,

back to you at your next question.

640

:

Yeah.

641

:

You know, one of my you know, we've done

642

:

a prior podcast and, Meg Fisher

643

:

referred to, able bodied athletes

644

:

as people that have leg doping, right?

645

:

Like they got two legs.

646

:

I remember that it was one of my favorite

things that I've ever heard on a podcast.

647

:

But when you're preparing

for a world Championship Olympics,

648

:

what sort of like technical advances

649

:

are you looking at compared to

to able bodied athletes, or is it pretty?

650

:

I would say for me it's the

651

:

same because I'm on a two wheel bike

right now.

652

:

I have I do wear an AFO on my leg.

653

:

If you've ever seen any pictures of it

that allows that that leg

654

:

to be able to pedal now it's it's

so it's not super aerodynamic.

655

:

So I'd say that's kind of the thing

656

:

where I'm hindered versus

a person that doesn't need to wear one.

657

:

So I, I try to create different ways

to cover that with like velo toes

658

:

and have that go all along there.

659

:

I'd say,

660

:

I would say

all of the electronic shifting

661

:

and things that we have now,

the disc brakes, those are all advances

662

:

that probably have benefited para athletes

more than they've benefited able bodied

663

:

athletes, because you look at someone

who maybe has like one digit, right?

664

:

They've got this one finger

and that's all they have.

665

:

Having accessibility

to disc brakes or splitter

666

:

or electronic shifting

has now made it to where

667

:

they're not at a disadvantage

to someone who has full hand grip.

668

:

So, you know, but hand cycles and you have

to talk to someone in a hand cycle.

669

:

But I do listen a lot.

670

:

They've had huge advances in, say,

671

:

wheel five running really tiny wheels.

672

:

I think there like 20 fours in the back

versus 700 what they used to run.

673

:

And also just the designs of their hand

cycles

674

:

have changed over the years

and gotten better.

675

:

And now I think what the in debate

is, will they allow now?

676

:

Is UCI going to allow the kneeler category

going into next year, which is H5, or

677

:

are they going to make everybody just run,

lay down bikes and be done with it?

678

:

I mean, that's

what we're all kind of waiting to see

679

:

if it's going to happen or not.

680

:

And then trike riders

681

:

would be the other one

that I think there needs to be something.

682

:

That category is for people

who have like balance issues.

683

:

I don't understand

why they're on such an upright

684

:

bike instead of being on a three Wheeler

recumbent bike.

685

:

You already mean.

686

:

It just seems so much safer for them

to race something lower to the ground

687

:

when they're the ones

with the most balance issues,

688

:

so I don't know if that'll ever change.

689

:

So when you

690

:

talk about all these different categories

and special needs are on the equipment,

691

:

disc brakes,

electronic shifting and training camps.

692

:

How is the financial situation

of the US Federation for this?

693

:

And do you have private sponsors?

694

:

Does your husband help you?

695

:

Family helps or,

how do you get along well with all that?

696

:

Because, I mean,

697

:

your bike is probably the least expensive

as the bikes we used to have. So.

698

:

So how is all that working out for you?

699

:

You. You're a member of a team

of a sports club or your privateer

700

:

or, how is hosted,

organized in your life?

701

:

So for me, coming from being a pro,

702

:

right, I, I had relationship

with all my pro sponsors.

703

:

And so moving into the Paralympic world,

I still had those ties.

704

:

Jim Shell is a very good friend of mine.

705

:

And he.

706

:

And then Andy Sparks connected me with

707

:

with what was 2016 back

then, Nicola Cranmer.

708

:

And I've been working with their team.

709

:

So I've, I'm a I'm very blessed in my path

to the Paralympics

710

:

and having just all those connections

with my former sponsors.

711

:

For those that don't,

712

:

one of the main, so places you could go

713

:

would be the Challenged

Athletes Foundation, which is just

714

:

a fantastic organization

that helps anyone with disabilities.

715

:

You don't even have to be pro,

716

:

and they're going to help

you get the equipment that is needed,

717

:

because hand cycle bikes are one off

and they are so much more money.

718

:

I think of in a lot of like the, the,

the bikes that I can get my hands on.

719

:

So I mean upwards of like $10,000

if they're going to get carbon

720

:

hand cycle bikes.

721

:

So they often rely on that.

722

:

There are a few other teams

like team possibilities

723

:

and a few others

that are like para based.

724

:

I think Challenge Athletes Foundation

actually does have one of the only

725

:

female hand cycle teams,

and so they get help there.

726

:

Otherwise, no, you're on your own and

you're you're footing the bill yourself.

727

:

You're applying for the

what little grants are out there.

728

:

And then, my goal is to like,

never use my husband's,

729

:

never use our family

income to pay for my stuff.

730

:

It's it's finding those resources.

731

:

I know my my brace company, my aso

732

:

they they help with money on the side

that helps me get to races

733

:

and pay for, like, plane,

plane tickets and things like that.

734

:

But it's hard.

735

:

Like, we don't we don't have anywhere

near the recognition or accessibility to

736

:

to having help that say,

I used to have as a pro athlete.

737

:

And that's where it's kind of sad.

738

:

And I think every Paralympic year sponsor

Step up.

739

:

Like I'll totally say Toyota was huge.

740

:

Toyota helped sponsor or help donate

donated money to every Paralympic athlete

741

:

that made the team,

and those are so crucial to helping us get

742

:

what is needed to continue to further us,

to be the athlete that we can be,

743

:

that we know we can be.

744

:

And is it true that you're also a coach

yourself?

745

:

I mean, you mentioned Neal Henderson.

746

:

Everybody knows Neal Henderson.

747

:

Are you actually a coach yourself as well?

748

:

So I yes, I

749

:

for a very long time I was coaching

triathletes and mountain bikers

750

:

and I started to step away

to focus on parenting again

751

:

and being or not parenting again,

but like focusing more on my kids. So.

752

:

So then I've now gravitated

towards coaching kids.

753

:

And right now it's a it's

100% volunteer basis.

754

:

Like I have coached my kids cross-country

team for the last like four years.

755

:

I coached soccer,

which I know very little about soccer,

756

:

but it's I have such a passion

757

:

for kids to be active that that, that

758

:

I just want to see kids playing like kids

going out there and writing and I do.

759

:

I take kids out and I go and I ride

and I just, I don't know,

760

:

I need to get back into the world

of like making money coaching.

761

:

But at the same time, I don't ever want

someone to not have access

762

:

to being a better athlete

and learning what I can teach them if,

763

:

but just because they don't

have the funding.

764

:

So, you know, I'm

we'll see where I go next year

765

:

and do your own children

766

:

are they sporty in in any kind

they do soccer.

767

:

Do you follow your cycling,

768

:

your Xterra,

or do you just happy to be a couch potato?

769

:

So, I would say

my twins have always been super active.

770

:

My, they both have grown up snowboarding

but, Christian loves snowboarding.

771

:

But and riders now gravitated a little bit

more towards just downhill skiing

772

:

and but they do it for fun

and then running.

773

:

So funny story about running

rider has always been

774

:

like I gung ho rider running

and then Christian.

775

:

I had to bribe.

776

:

He hated running and I but

I didn't want to come pick one of them up.

777

:

I was like, you're both doing sports.

778

:

So they did that.

They wrestled for a little while.

779

:

They did jiu jitsu for a few years,

and my son would always say, mom,

780

:

Christian, this is Christian.

781

:

Not everybody is as competitive as you.

782

:

If I was like, oh, okay.

783

:

Because I would always just be like,

you could, you could be so fast.

784

:

And he just thought me tooth and nail

and now is a high schooler Christian.

785

:

Like he's he's running like low

eight teens and, and actually went sub 17

786

:

in a three mile race and,

and it's fun to see him

787

:

like really starting to find his groove

in running.

788

:

The kid who fought me on it and was like,

well, I'm just going to practice.

789

:

I don't want to race.

790

:

And then my other son, Ryder,

still loves running, but he's little.

791

:

He's not even five foot yet.

792

:

And he but he's a huge soccer player

and loves that.

793

:

And then they both do ride.

794

:

But Christian loves mountain

795

:

biking and Ryder loves road riding,

but they don't want to race.

796

:

They just like to ride with me.

797

:

So I don't push that.

798

:

It's like, okay.

799

:

And then Ryder, I'm

trying to get into Nordic skiing

800

:

because I think he'd be really good

cross-country skier.

801

:

But, oh,

and he also loves track and field

802

:

and is really,

really good at high jump and hurdles.

803

:

Like I'm already

noticing very good technique.

804

:

But at five foot

he's he's got to grow some more.

805

:

So we'll see.

806

:

I got to ask this question where did this

competitiveness in you come from.

807

:

I you know, you can hear it in your voice.

808

:

So like what where are the where's

the origin of that competitive spirit?

809

:

I don't I don't know

except that my dad's side of the family,

810

:

I remember growing up with them

and Christmas time and Thanksgiving

811

:

and every holiday that we got together,

we played board games.

812

:

Right?

813

:

We're talking Pictionary, claim

to fame, Mexican dominoes.

814

:

And it was like heated.

815

:

We would be arguing.

816

:

I had these twin uncles,

I had an aunt, and then my grandma.

817

:

Grandpa. And then it was my sister

and myself and my dad.

818

:

And so we would split into teams and

we tried to make them as even as possible.

819

:

But there were arguments

and nobody liked losing.

820

:

And there was just this competitiveness.

821

:

I mean, my dad, when we would play,

822

:

we would even play like,

let's just say thumb wars.

823

:

My dad's hand is like three times

the size of mine.

824

:

And he would just crush me all the time,

like just pin my thumb down

825

:

and would never let me win anything,

whatever it was.

826

:

So I don't know if he saw in me

this kid that was just super competitive,

827

:

that he just fostered

that by like never letting me win or what.

828

:

But as long as I've known myself,

there's always been this desire

829

:

to be the best that I could be, and I,

830

:

I, I measured myself to others to be

to, like, be better.

831

:

Right.

832

:

Does that make sense?

833

:

Where it wasn't,

it wasn't like, detrimental to me were

834

:

oh, I lost, I must suck.

835

:

It was never like that.

836

:

It was.

837

:

Oh she was she was 10s better than me.

838

:

Where can I gain 10s.

839

:

And it was always analyzing a race.

840

:

Or where could I pick it up

if I just pick up

841

:

one two seconds per mile,

that'll get me closer to her.

842

:

So it was always this analytical thing.

843

:

And I think the hardest thing

about getting older as an athlete

844

:

is, you know, that

the gains are so small now.

845

:

I mean, I'm in my 40s and so I'm watching

these 20 year olds that are,

846

:

you know, 10s behind me and I'm going,

oh gosh, give her two years

847

:

and she's going to be in front of me,

I could she's got the room

848

:

to make these gains and I don't anymore.

849

:

Yeah.

850

:

So I don't know I love I love

being competitive but sometimes I got it.

851

:

I just got to tone it down because as my

son said, mom got everybody's competitive.

852

:

So with the competitive

853

:

spirit, where is your competitive future

with this?

854

:

How much longer

you want to be an active athlete?

855

:

Or at what point

856

:

you think, oh, maybe I'd be a full time

coach now or whatever full time mom?

857

:

Well, whatever your desire for

for the future and your plans for that,

858

:

you know, I tell people

I hang around as long as I'm relevant.

859

:

So I know, I know my days of being a world

champion aren't there?

860

:

But there's still that room where I can

I still make the podium?

861

:

Can I be that 50 year old

that still makes the podium,

862

:

that shows these younger gals like,

I've still got a little bit.

863

:

And I think as long as that's there,

I'll stick around as long as I can

864

:

mentor and I can be a veteran

865

:

and I also if everybody just keeps

retiring in my category than that,

866

:

you know, para's like that unique thing

where you actually have

867

:

to have a disability.

868

:

It's not like able bodied

where anybody can do it.

869

:

You have to have that type of disability

to fit into that category.

870

:

So it's it's harder

to keep the depth in our categories.

871

:

So so I kind of feel an obligation

to continue to be there

872

:

to validate,

you know, we've got 15 girls now racing

873

:

instead of like only five

because everybody quits or retires.

874

:

But yeah, I

875

:

mean, I definitely know

I'm, I'm over that hump.

876

:

I'd love to see if I could make it to 50

when I was, when I first started Xterra.

877

:

Ned Overend like he was one of the people

that really said, Jamie,

878

:

you have a future in Xterra.

You should do this.

879

:

And we became friends.

880

:

And I told myself back then, at the ripe

881

:

old age of like 27,

that I wanted to still be racing at 50.

882

:

So I for sure have two more years in me.

883

:

Well then that only is one more year

884

:

to go for the next,

Olympics in Los Angeles.

885

:

Isn't that right? Then it's.

886

:

Yeah. Then it's like, well, then.

887

:

Then LA 2028 is like right there.

888

:

Can I, can I last another quad?

889

:

I don't I don't know because it is mental.

890

:

It's not physically draining.

891

:

It's mentally draining

to keep playing the game.

892

:

The politics of the Olympics

and Paralympics.

893

:

So I told myself,

894

:

let's make a goal of two more years

and then we'll reassess in two more years.

895

:

That that brings me back to a question

I wanted to ask earlier.

896

:

What is your like season?

897

:

What is your program look like?

898

:

Is it only surrounding the World

Championships and and Paralympic Games,

899

:

or is there more stuff, more little

stepping stones or goals

900

:

that that para athletes

have throughout the whole season?

901

:

We have the road, we do have a few World

Cups and then we have selection events.

902

:

So in a year

with a with a World Championships,

903

:

we might have six, 6 or 7 races.

904

:

Now, people in my categories

can often do able bodied racing as well,

905

:

whereas our hand cycle counterparts

don't don't have as many

906

:

unless they go to Europe.

907

:

And then there's lots of what

we say, T1 events

908

:

where they can go and participate

in a lot of different events.

909

:

But me being a parent, it's that, see,

910

:

when I was a pro, I had zero kids,

so everything was about my career, right?

911

:

Like it was it was I, I ate, slept

in and trained, if that's all I did.

912

:

And now it's I'm juggling four kids

913

:

like my my bonus daughter as we say.

914

:

She she was so not athletic at all.

915

:

And then, you know, I think the desire

to like, connect with me.

916

:

She started running and like,

she's tough as nails.

917

:

Let me tell you.

918

:

So she went from not running at all

919

:

to going into high school

and running five kids.

920

:

And she listens to everything I say.

921

:

And so

922

:

I want to be there for them.

923

:

So a lot of my stuff, like I can't

924

:

just go out and do road

racing every weekend like I used to.

925

:

And so it I prioritize

making sure I'm there

926

:

for their soccer games, their for their,

cross-country events.

927

:

And then I go in, I train.

928

:

So racing for me is so smaller,

929

:

so much smaller than what it used to be.

930

:

But I'm okay with that

because I'm also older and I feel like

931

:

it would just wear me out if I was racing

every weekend like I used to.

932

:

And just a very last thing,

933

:

just to avoid confusion, was our listeners

and viewers.

934

:

Please explain the term of bonus child

one more time.

935

:

My bonus child.

936

:

So I am remarried

and my husband has two children.

937

:

So they're I have a stepson

and a stepdaughter,

938

:

and I often call them my bonus children

because they're a pleasant addition

939

:

to my twins.

940

:

And I don't like referring to myself

as like that wicked stepmother. So.

941

:

So I'm a bonus mom,

942

:

and you've been a bonus guest.

943

:

Jamie, thank you so much today

for coming on the odd tandem

944

:

and wish you all the best moving forward.

945

:

Can't wait to see what happens in 2028.

946

:

If you're going to be an athlete

or a coach, you never know.

947

:

Yeah, thank you for having me.

948

:

It's been a pleasure.

949

:

That's everything for this week.

950

:

Now remember to follow us at Odd Tandem

on TikTok,

951

:

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and wherever

you get your favorite podcasts.

952

:

Thanks a million to Jamie

for joining the podcast.

953

:

And also, please remember

if you want to see the video version

954

:

of this podcast,

it is up on our YouTube channel right now.

955

:

Youtube.com/@OddTandem

956

:

And if you want the full

uninterrupted version of this podcast

957

:

and your name in the titles,

just head to our Patreon

958

:

where you can sign up for $5 a month

in order to keep this podcast going.

959

:

That's patreon.com/oddtandem,

960

:

and thanks to our Patreon members

Scott, Steven Kimbrough, Marie Teixeira,

961

:

Jeff Kralik, Brian Colon, Chris Merritt,

Tim Farriss, Jim,

962

:

David Swartwout, Bill Babcock, Nancy Ness,

Michael Terblanche,

963

:

Jim Burns, Swim school Bob, Steve,

964

:

Scott Nabors,

Joseph and Philip Shama who’ve done

965

:

just that

966

:

And please keep sharing the podcast

and leaving your reviews

967

:

wherever you're listening.

968

:

It really helps us to build our audience.

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.