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Published on:

27th Sep 2024

Taco van der Hoorn: Narrow handlebars and battling back from concussion

Taco van der Hoorn burst onto the scene thanks to his incredibly aggressive racing style, and his narrow handlebars. He won a stage at the Giro d'Italia from a breakaway as well as wins at the Renewi Tour and the Brussels classic.

But in 2023, at the Tour of Flanders Taco's life changed. A crash while he pushed to join the breakaway left Taco with a concussion that sidelined him for the next 16 months. He joined Bobby and Jens to share his road to recovery and how he finds tiny advantages to win.

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Transcript
Speaker:

Even after a concussion for a year,

which is extremely frustrating.

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And you you don't see the end.

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A lot of times it still can come back to,

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to to good again

and you can be completely healthy again.

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Hello everyone,

and welcome back to the Odd Tandem.

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You know, cycling

is one heck of a hard sport,

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but when you have a concussion that lasts

for 16 months, it gets even harder.

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Our guest today

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spelled it out for all of us

to understand the importance of patience

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with a concussion and just taking the time

to get back to where you once were.

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Jens,our conversation

today was educational and entertaining.

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What did you think?

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It was absolutely,

entertaining and educational.

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What I took away from

this is the happy end of it.

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I mean, our guest seemed to be in

such a good place, in such a good shape,

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mentally and physically,

that even after 16 months of struggle

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and uphill battles and setbacks,

it came true.

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And he's good.

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He is the good old Taco.

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So that's all we wanted.

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So I'm super happy

that we had a chance to talk to him.

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And he's recently returned to racing,

and he talked with us

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the night before his race.

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So please sit back and relax and listen

to our great conversation with Taco van

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der Hoorn All right, Taco van der Hoorn,

welcome to the Odd Tandem.

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Hello. Hello.

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Nice to be here.

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Yeah, man.

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Before we start, we normally start

with some quickfire questions, but I

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just got to know this.

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When I heard your name,

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Taco, I was like,

that's gotta be a nickname.

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I mean, you're a Dutch kid

with the name Taco, so please tell us

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about the origin of your first name.

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Actually, it's,

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there is in Holland, there's, famous

there was a famous hockey player

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and, and,

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and and his name was Taco

Hajo van den Honert.

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so it's pretty close to to my name now.

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My my my my parents just really liked it,

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and they really liked it, like the name,

so they were.

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And then they were saying like,

okay, let's go for it.

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So actually that's,

I'm named after a hockey player.

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So that's how it started

That's cool, that's cool.

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I always wondered,

I always wondered, yeah.

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Because you have the ice cream

and the food and everything like that.

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This is an in the end, the reason.

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But in, in some part of Holland,

like in the North Holland,

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Friesland, there it's more common.

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There's a little bit

more common name Taco.

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But in the rest of Holland

it's quite, it's quite unusual also. So

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yeah.

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So we're going to get started

with, four quickfire questions, very,

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very simple questions

just to kind of break

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the ice and get this interview

going a little bit.

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I know that you're racing tomorrow,

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but in your picture, like your,

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you know, your, your bio pic, you know,

you've got some pretty spiky hair.

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So first question is when you're

getting out to go, you know, clubbing

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or get ready for those photos,

do you use hair spray

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or gel for your hair?

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Oh, no gel at all.

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Sometimes, wax like some wax, but,

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but normally also a lot of times

there's nothing.

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So, Yeah.

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Just that. Yeah, there's my long hair.

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Like having a good time. Okay.

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Okay.

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If you could choose, would you rather be

a breakaway rider or a sprinter?

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A breakaway rider?

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Okay, Gerrie Knetemann

or Joop Zoetemelk?

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Ooh. Joop Zoetemelk.

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All right. Old school. Okay.

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Last one, Graeme Obree or Chris Boardman.

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Graeme Obree.

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Hey, Taco, probably a lot

of our listeners and viewers as well.

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And us, we noticed you have been off

the racing scene for a while.

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How is it now for you?

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How is your health,

your body, your shape, and how was the way

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to come back to be able to start racing?

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Yeah, that's been a really long time.

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I've been out of,

out of racing for 16 months, 16 months.

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So, yeah, it has been a really long time.

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And, Yeah, it's wonderful to be back.

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It's it's, it's it's it's beautiful too.

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The most important thing to them, like,

healthy again.

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And if you, normal, human being,

that's, that's the most important thing.

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And then afterwards, also

the like the cycling is going good again.

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So that's also, wonderful thing of.

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But it has been, it has been a really

long recovery and a really hard recovery.

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Yeah.

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So it's and at one point you also think

like this is going to work or not,

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and you can some doubts,

but in the end everything worked out.

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And now it's I'm healthy again.

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That's, that's wonderful.

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And tell us,

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tell our viewers and our listeners

what actually occurred.

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Your crash happened in the 2023

Tour of Flanders, I believe.

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Talk us through what happened

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or what

you remember from from that accident.

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Yeah, I, I like, we were trying to

I was trying to get in the breakaway,

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and then, there was just, I was just

simply stuck at the side of the road,

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and I tried to jump on, on the pavement

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because I was just, a little bit bruised

and needed to jump on,

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but I just hit, my front wheel

It it, it pavement and then,

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I hit my head on the floor

and I hit my head,

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like, just before my eye my above my eye,

I had seven

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stitches,

and I was like, a wound until the skull.

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Yeah, that was a pretty hard crash,

but but everything after that

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and this, from what people have told me,

I don't know anything about it anymore.

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Like everything is gone.

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But, that's what they told me.

That's what happened.

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And then they just put me into the,

ambulance at the hospital,

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and,

the first beats, I just had, like, some,

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some needs to, to stop the bleeding

directly with, with machine,

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but afterwards,

I just went to the hospital, and I think

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when I was in the hospital,

maybe three, four hours after the crash

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then it started to,

get a little bit better again.

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And I from that moment on,

I know some things.

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And then I was just

the first few days was just really easy

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and just don't do so much and,

more laying in bed

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because everything was causing

symptoms like light, sounds,

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busy environment, especially.

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So then you really start slowly, like,

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yeah,

every day is gonna be a little bit better.

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But then, yeah, in the end,

things took a long,

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long time.

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And I started in the beginning.

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I started quite

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early with, with cycling again

also because of what my doctor would tell.

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And I was I went directly to like the,

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the doctor of the national soccer

team in Holland.

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They have, concussion.

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Yeah.

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Space

yeah a part of the Yeah, but all they're

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all training, the training, location

where they all train the Dutch, team.

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They also have a special training center

for for concussions.

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I went there directly,

and I followed those guys, but still.

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Yeah, I went according to plan, and,

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I started with slowly

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getting on the bike after after a week,

but still.

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Yeah, it it

I tried to push it a little bit, but after

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I think two, three weeks I got a setback

and then it went pretty bad.

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From then on.

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So, at one point,

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because I, I had a bad crash,

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with a little blood clot in my brain

in:

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At one point, you realize, okay,

I'm going to have a normal life.

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I will be able to remember

the name of my parents.

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I remember my birthday, my name.

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I can write my own name,

and I can walk and, go grocery shopping.

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At what point after crash,

you realized, okay, I'm.

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I'm good enough

to at least have a normal life for myself.

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And at what point

in the timeline of sixteen months

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did you realise I actually have a chance

to become a bike rider again?

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Yeah.

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I think,

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daily life is going

like it's small steps.

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And, but it's actually what I could do.

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I could do after a, a month or so,

I could do most of the things again.

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I could go for, for a small dinner

with my friends,

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or I could do, go to doing groceries or,

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going to a busy environment,

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watching my phone,

working on the computer.

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But before that, I all this was all, like,

really, really a problem.

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But after that, after a month or so,

I could do the things only

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I would, maybe for an hour of an hour,

and then I have to lay on bed.

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So it was really.

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You need to. Okay, in the morning,

I can do this.

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And then I have to the afternoon,

I just need to lay in bed for the,

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for the afternoon.

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And then in the evening

I can do this a little bit.

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So you really have to structurise

everything

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and to plan out everything, what you can

and what you cannot do,

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especially

that you, have enough rest in between.

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So that was first the plan.

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And then at one point, I think after

a few months you start more like trying.

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Also,

the intensity in, going on the bike,

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but that was causing a lot of problems,

directly from, from for me,

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the biggest problem was if I,

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if I, my heart rate is going up.

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My blood pressure was rising,

and this was causing a lot of symptoms

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for for my health.

And that took a long time.

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And I think I think only after

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maybe that was in March this year,

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March, April

that I was finally getting some,

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like some training on the bike

and that I was feeling

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a little bit of control so I can do

I because that's in the end, you

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with all the things about a concussion,

is also you need time, but

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you also need to build it up at one point.

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So it's

you make sure as you go, for example,

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if you go, about daily life,

you watch TV for five minutes

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and you take some rest

and you hope the next day

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you can watch it for seven minutes,

and then you take some rest,

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and the next day

you can watch it for ten minutes.

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And that's how you train a little bit.

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Also your head

to get used to all the signals.

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And that to do for everything

like for, for watching TV

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but also for going for that, restaurant

or going for other things.

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You just every time you try to increase it

a little bit,

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that's causing a little bit of symptoms,

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but then you take some rest,

if the symptoms, go down,

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and then hopefully the next day

you can do a little bit more.

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That's how it should go.

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But with intensity and cycling,

it was a long time.

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It was difficult.

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It was not really increasing.

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And I had I could do one day,

do something, take some rest the next day.

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Sometimes I could do, yeah, only half

of it and get already a lot of symptoms.

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So it was really, Yeah.

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Not logical.

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And, so possible to, to build up.

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And I think after maybe in this April

that I finally started

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to feeling a little bit

that I could cycle again.

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So two more in the year.

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But one of the reasons and listen,

we want to

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we're going to get to you as a cyclist

and what you've done.

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But I just feel that this is very,

very important in this day and age to

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to have someone with your experience.

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And it sounds like you have an experience

in this because a you're almost 30 years

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old, you've had a concussion

and a serious concussion before.

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I think that was back in 2016.

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But there's a lot of kids

coming into this sport

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that don't have the support that you have,

don't have the experience that you have,

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don't have the patience

that you have dealing with

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something that is very, very serious.

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What sort of bit of advice

would you give to a younger rider?

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Say, I don't know, 18 to 24

that experiences is his

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or her first concussion? Because

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there's, there's injury, right?

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Like a broken collarbone,

a broken leg, like there's a set recovery

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time for something like that,

but with a concussion,

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it often comes down to people questioning

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the validity of your your injury.

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And that can get super frustrating,

I'm sure.

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So what what would you tell those

young riders that are going through

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what you've gone through to

to give them a little bit of inspiration,

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hope or morale and motivation

to to do this

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the right way?

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I think it's

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the most important thing is to do,

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yeah.

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You take it,

you take it seriously like it is.

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It is there.

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It's it's it's not in your head.

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Like mentally it is there.

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It's it's causing symptoms.

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And it's like it's also safe for a lot of

people is it's it's fake symptoms.

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It's it's difficult to explain

to other people because if someone didn't

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have a concussion,

it's really hard to feel like, to.

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Yeah, to go in your place like, okay,

this is really.

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But what's, what's going on is really,

it's a vague, injury.

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So I think it's important that it is

there.

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It's not it's not your fault. It's not.

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It's that, that you still are suffering

with everything and question like this and

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and luckily, like a lot of the concussions

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here and one, two, three, four weeks, and

then everything is back to normal again.

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There are just a few percentage,

like 5% or something that it's causing

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like long term symptoms.

They call it the post-concussion syndrome.

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I, I get a lot of people from

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because my story is out there,

the people on Instagram reach out to me

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like they already had a concussion

for nine months or a year or two years

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or three years even.

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Yeah, it's just

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it is nice in that way that you feel

you're not alone.

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Who is struggling so long for that

from a concussion like this?

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But it is also nice.

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I think also example

for those people that

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even after a concussion for a year,

which is extremely frustrating and you,

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you don't see the end and a lot of times

they still can come back

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to, to to go again

and they can be completely healthy again.

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And that's something

I think that's something to take with you

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that still after if you have a concussion

for a whole year or a year,

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everything can go back

to completely normal again.

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So basically take it serious,

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be patient about it,

and you cannot rush it

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right.

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No, you cannot force it.

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It's in the end, it's impossible.

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It's impossible. You cannot rush it.

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It's it's

just there and, it's just extremely,

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it takes you need patience for it.

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And sometimes it goes faster.

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Sometimes it goes slower with people,

and it's just how it is.

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And you need to

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find a good physiotherapist,

a good doctor that can help you with it.

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Because for to do it

alone is not possible.

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You need someone externally

that, can, can help you with it

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because it's not good

to sit alone with it.

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And have you used

or do you believe in the use

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of ketones to help with concussions?

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Because I've heard a few guys,

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have used that immediately

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after their symptoms of their, you know,

hitting their head on the ground.

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They used ketones.

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Did you experiment with that at all

or have any,

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you know, knowledge about using ketones

to treat a concussion?

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No, I didn't actually, at one point I

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because there's

if you are out for a one year,

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you get so many people

with so many advices.

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Of course

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everybody has some friends to use this

or some friends did that and some friends

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who it helped this and,

and it's really just difficult

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because you always have the feeling

that you you're missing something.

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You're missing

the next thing that can help you.

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But I think also at one point

I needed to,

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yeah, to, to heal myself a little bit,

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but okay, I'm not going to do everything

because it's impossible.

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I have a

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feeling I one of the best doctors

there is on the concussion.

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And I had a good physiotherapist

and I have the trust in them.

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And why should I search for things

while they study for it?

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And they have so much, knowledge about it.

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So I just have to trust in there, in them.

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And even when it was not working

for, for a year, I keep trusting them

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because why do I think I need

I know more about these things.

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I don't think that's, that's a good

thing, is really because

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and I think there's also a lot of people

making,

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it's difficult, but a lot of people also,

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if people are frustrating and they,

they're looking for everything that maybe

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can help, there's maybe some supplement

or there's maybe this or maybe this.

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They can sell you everything at one point

because you're just desperate

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after a year of not working.

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And, so there's also no economy

also about that, of course.

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But in the end, I just try to do my, my,

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on my, on my

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doctor or my physiotherapist

and if they didn't think

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it was really useful, who am I to,

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to feel that it will be who?

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And when you applied

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for a new professional license,

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was there any extra questions,

any extra test required?

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I said, yep, tackle your license.

There you go.

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How was that process?

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I just had my license, like two months ago

or something, so.

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Okay.

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I didn't realize it for a long time,

because it needs.

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You have to be have to say

that you're healthy and I was not healthy.

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So, and in the end, I get, I,

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I get my license

in, Andorra with that where I live

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and there and I get a letter from,

from there, from the doctor

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that was saying

like you’re ready to race again.

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And when I was training full gas and

when I almost didn't have symptoms, what I

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could train a lot.

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Then I was healthy again.

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And then I could apply for my license.

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I think it's pretty clear that no helmet

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can completely protect you

from a concussion.

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But what do you think

our sport can do better

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to avoid these sort of, you know,

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head injuries?

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I think they're already doing pretty

well now

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with, with the protocol during the race

that they directly started.

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You hit your head or your your,

the directly the doctor will ask

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or the team director or something will ask

questions about, okay, where are you?

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How old are you?

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Like simple questions.

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And then they know exactly. Okay.

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Is this is it like, a normal reaction

or is it something going wrong?

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And then they will directly

take you out of the race?

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So I think that's already a big step

because, you cannot make the decision

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as a rider to,

because also I wanted to also my,

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my blood was everywhere,

but I just wanted to directly

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reach my bike and go on the bike

back to the peloton. So.

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And that's normal as a cyclist

because you're also not

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really down with concussion.

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So you have to be someone else

with standing.

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But that's going to make the decision.

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No, you can not write anymore.

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And I think that's going now really well.

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And about rider safety in general,

about about

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about dressing in general.

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Yeah.

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It's difficult.

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It's also part of the sport that, it's

there are a lot of crashes,

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and if you crash, you can hit your head

and then, you can get a concussion.

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So I don't think it's possible to to.

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Yeah, it's just part of it.

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And I think now the protocols are better.

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So hopefully a lot of the riders

will recover faster.

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But I also follow directly that plan.

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And for me it didn't work out.

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So it's just yeah,

I don't think we can control it now.

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Is is it your first race tomorrow

after that or you had already races

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before since you only had the license

for two months, is it.

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Yeah.

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I already racing for to my

for more than two months now.

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I did, I started in Leuven

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:

then I did the Tour of Germany and,

and some other races.

390

:

No, I'm already racing for,

for some time now.

391

:

So that's, Yeah.

392

:

How how did your body react after,

393

:

I mean, just physically your legs

after so, so much time.

394

:

Oh, because cycling is developing

quite fast, right?

395

:

If you see how fast they go

and if you out,

396

:

it's gotta be tough to come back

into the race rhythm. No.

397

:

So how did you feel

after the first 1 or 2 races?

398

:

I mean, just your legs, your body,

do you go, Holy smokes.

399

:

I'm never going to be able

to win against these guys.

400

:

Actually it goes quite well.

401

:

I was oh wow. That's good.

402

:

So no I in my first race

I was a bit of a joke.

403

:

I don't do run so well but but afterwards

I was on tour of Germany and

404

:

I was quite surprised.

405

:

I already did almost some power records.

406

:

Like after,

after such a short time coming back.

407

:

So that's gone good.

408

:

And, I didn't have the chance

to do a really good result now,

409

:

but I think it was also

because my, my, I had a concussion before,

410

:

and it took me six months out,

I think I was six months of the bike.

411

:

And when I come back, I think I just hit

it really hard with training.

412

:

I trained six weeks like incredible hard,

to reach a good level.

413

:

And then I think after

I was only training for six weeks then

414

:

and I did

my third race wasn't being wrong and I,

415

:

I was on the stage

there, directly from there, from the road.

416

:

So I was there.

417

:

That also gave me a lot of confidence.

That's okay.

418

:

Then I was six, six months without a bike

and I come back really quickly.

419

:

Okay.

420

:

Now I was more than a year without a bike.

421

:

But now also I had a lot of confidence

actually, that I

422

:

that if you train well and you're,

423

:

you're healthy and you can push your body

because I think that's really important.

424

:

Like if you have still an injury

and you cannot train really good.

425

:

Yeah.

426

:

Then take a long time, to, to come back.

427

:

But at one point I was healthy again.

428

:

I could just wasn't under like five weeks,

like, really, training.

429

:

And then I, my level was quite similar

to then before the race.

430

:

So yeah, I'm confident also that I,

431

:

I hope that I can do a results

in the coming races somewhere and,

432

:

actually my level is good

enough, but, yeah, for me, as a,

433

:

as a rider is something difficult

because I also need a little bit of luck,

434

:

with the breakaway riding

or with with the kind of things.

435

:

And, yeah, if you have a climber

that's just in good shape

436

:

and with some good powers,

then he goes to the climb and you see that

437

:

in good shape.

438

:

But for me, it's

sometimes a little bit more difficult,

439

:

to, to show it that, the, the shape.

440

:

Well, Taco, you know,

now that we've transitioned into back

441

:

you racing and riding and feeling

good again,

442

:

I just want to thank you for sharing

all that information about your concussion

443

:

with us and our listeners, because I think

that's super important for people

444

:

to to know and to hear that, you know,

it's a serious thing and take it serious.

445

:

But like I said, we're moving on.

446

:

So not only was it

your name that really caught my attention

447

:

back in like 2021,

448

:

it was your handlebar with like,

you're a pretty darn big guy.

449

:

And you know what, 187

450

:

you're,

you're trying to go into the breakaways

451

:

and your name, Taco van

der Hoorn comes on the screen

452

:

and then you have these very,

very narrow handlebars.

453

:

What was your thinking about this

when you first started it?

454

:

Because to my knowledge,

you were one of one of the first,

455

:

if not the first, that went that extreme

with your handlebar, with.

456

:

Yeah, I think I started already

457

:

like maybe ten years ago or something,

458

:

with my, with the smaller handlebar.

459

:

And I put my levers to the inside

and, and, and that was

460

:

and I just, I think I was still junior,

I just past junior it was around

461

:

more than ten years ago.

462

:

And then everybody was,

but this was still the time

463

:

that also aero suits were

464

:

or aero helmets were a little bit weird

if you were wearing them.

465

:

So it's always evolving, of course.

466

:

But then I was riding with my aero suit

467

:

and then I had the small handlebar

and the 38 and the levers to the inside.

468

:

And, and then you get a lot of,

things from people.

469

:

They say, oh, did you crash?

470

:

And this is there

because there you get to the inside.

471

:

And, then

472

:

people were joking a lot about it,

also about the narrower and the bars.

473

:

But you see that

also that things change at one point and,

474

:

sometimes cycling is pretty conservative

and, and,

475

:

need some time to, to a lot of things

476

:

leave time to develop.

477

:

And that's also with,

with the smaller number.

478

:

And I was also, I think a, I'm not the guy

with, the biggest engine of the peloton.

479

:

I'm not the guy with the highest

20 minute power or the highest Vo2 max.

480

:

And and I think I'm always

I'm always fascinating about.

481

:

Okay, how

I can still beat these guys, these guys.

482

:

How can we still be a pro cyclist if

I'm not the guy with the biggest engine?

483

:

And I think I,

I always had a lot of fun about it.

484

:

So thinking about it.

485

:

So okay, I, I did in tactics,

I did the material that is in aerodynamics

486

:

and training wise,

I also started human movement sciences

487

:

on the university in Amsterdam.

488

:

So I got a bachelor degree there.

489

:

So I also have my background

myself, background in, in that case

490

:

about about training physiology,

about aerodynamics for some biomechanics.

491

:

So I use that also that information

also in my, in my own cycling career.

492

:

And I just I wasn't available on my own.

493

:

Yeah. How you say on guinea pig.

494

:

Like I was just experimenting on myself

like thinking, okay, this

495

:

maybe can this can help.

496

:

And and then I was trying do in the race

or in training and that's how I think,

497

:

like how I was started and just the way

498

:

to always become a little bit better.

499

:

Looking for other ways,

like, for example, Graeme Obree.

500

:

That's also one way.

501

:

He's one of my, my, my cycling heroes in

that kind of I do to look for other ways.

502

:

If you're not the best, the biggest engine

or not the best cyclists to look

503

:

for other ways to get better.

504

:

So, you didn't have a mentor or a coach?

505

:

I said, hey, sit on a bike like this,

and you didn't go to wind tunnel test,

506

:

just you,

the young Taco, went just by pure

507

:

logic, if I should do this,

it should help me with this.

508

:

If I sit like this, it should help me.

509

:

Was that so?

510

:

It was your idea

and you tried it with yourself, right?

511

:

Or somebody else from the outside

told you do this or do this?

512

:

No, actually I did it.

513

:

Well, most of the time I still,

514

:

I am, I'm good friends with Jan-Willem

van Schip, the track rider who is also,

515

:

with his handlebar

and with his position and stuff.

516

:

So we already I to him also for a while

when we were still students

517

:

and we also were discussing it,

at the dinner table.

518

:

Okay.

519

:

What can we do to make this better

or make that better?

520

:

So we also had a lot of discussions,

and we all helped each other

521

:

in that way to, to game some.

522

:

Yeah, some games and weights

and to make some progress.

523

:

So, now I think, of course,

you could you get help, but I think,

524

:

I did a lot of things myself just trying.

525

:

And then you say, you're something from,

526

:

something, something

527

:

say someone say something about the

the is how you take it in.

528

:

Someone say something about, food,

and you take it in,

529

:

and you all grab some points

from from everywhere, everywhere.

530

:

And then you make it in your own. Makes.

531

:

Well, you know, now that I know

532

:

we're talking to a brainiac,

you know, bachelor of whatever.

533

:

You know, I didn't get to go to college.

534

:

I didn't get to go to college.

535

:

What? What is next?

536

:

I mean, the UCI has banned your the the

537

:

the hoods from being tilted in too much,

so you can't use that.

538

:

You know,

you pioneered that like you said as well.

539

:

Where where else are you looking or

thinking about,

540

:

what other new things are

the UCI going to be looking at old Taco

541

:

and saying, damn,

542

:

this kid just needs to stop messing around

with with the the status quo.

543

:

Yeah.

544

:

Let's change. There always some rules.

545

:

That just.

546

:

Yeah.

547

:

Keep you in some into some boundaries

and then you have to look for new things.

548

:

So that's always, always the.

549

:

And the thing, of course.

550

:

And the I think still handlebars

are important thing

551

:

and I think especially like, I think

552

:

the most, aerodynamic drag is still

the body.

553

:

It's not the bike, it's

not the wheels, it's the body.

554

:

So I think it's still that's

that's the most important thing.

555

:

Your position on the bike, maybe

the shoe is a really important thing,

556

:

but especially your position on the bike.

557

:

And I think the handlebar in that kind of

a is a really important thing.

558

:

And to and also you can make it narrower

or you can make it longer or on of things.

559

:

And and I think now if you look at it

it's like cycling already.

560

:

They always I had a road cycling.

561

:

So if you look at, the positions

they take, for example on the bike,

562

:

on the track and you will see

563

:

in a few years I have always follow

on the, on the, on the road.

564

:

Also, we did because they’re ahead

and it's faster.

565

:

So but and now I think

566

:

yeah.

567

:

The handlebar I was already with Cube

before my injury.

568

:

We were trying to develop a new handlebar

569

:

together and, but then I had my injury,

and then, it do went through, but I also,

570

:

we had a prototype and everything,

and we tested it, and it was pretty fast.

571

:

And, I think that's going

572

:

to be some new things. And,

573

:

they're going to make

some impact of change.

574

:

Yeah.

575

:

When we talk about the track racing,

some of the national teams,

576

:

they use a bike where the fork is a lot

wider.

577

:

Right? Yeah.

578

:

The normal fork is like, really like

within millimeters of the tire.

579

:

And do you have some wider ones using

that will have a future.

580

:

And road cycling or is that just wild

581

:

probably.

582

:

Yeah I think so. Probably.

583

:

I think a lot of these things come from

the the first road develop.

584

:

They will put it more on the time

trial bikes

585

:

and then afterwards

they come to the, to the road bike and

586

:

of course you need some it need to be good

and handling and everything.

587

:

But I don't see I don't see a problem

actually why it wouldn't

588

:

be there like and that's

also a lot of the things you get.

589

:

I'm not making it myself, but it's

a lot of the things you always hear like,

590

:

why people are scared

to do something different

591

:

because they say,

oh, is it okay with handling?

592

:

Is it okay to put your narrow handlebars?

593

:

It's not difficult to ride

with the little bar, but

594

:

then if you find out that do it,

you just start with them with it.

595

:

And then after one week you see, okay,

there's nothing I like. It's

596

:

one week, it's a little bit challenging,

but one week is just feeling normal.

597

:

And I think it does.

598

:

So with this kind of things,

like at one point,

599

:

first it's a little bit like, oh, okay,

maybe this, this looks strange.

600

:

Maybe we're not going to do it

because it's dangerous

601

:

or something like that,

and then everybody will ride with it

602

:

and then yeah,

they cannot do it without it.

603

:

Also with the disc brakes

and with everything.

604

:

So we'll go like that.

605

:

So probably also with with yeah.

606

:

The wide forks. Yeah.

607

:

So now now I gotta ask this

because you just kind of mentioned it.

608

:

In 2022, in the tour de France, in 2022,

609

:

when you got second on the

the pathway stage to, to Simon Clarke,

610

:

I don't remember now,

but did you have those narrow handlebars

611

:

even on, on the pavé, on the cobbles,

on that, on that stage five.

612

:

Yeah. Always. Yeah yeah yeah yeah

613

:

yeah.

614

:

So, yeah. Right.

615

:

Exactly the same position on the,

I maybe I put my levers a little bit up

616

:

because otherwise you, you're go off

617

:

your, your, levers in the front

if you wait too much.

618

:

But like, it's a little bit

different, but, furthermore,

619

:

you know, I still think it's like.

620

:

But then also in that kind of thing that.

621

:

Yeah, in the Roubaix stage, for example,

you also have the tire pressure

622

:

which comes along and,

and everything about that, of course.

623

:

So, yeah,

that's also there's another part of it.

624

:

But I also like to, to go into, okay,

which tire was the best tire brand.

625

:

And it's also a very funny

story that you would like it.

626

:

I went one time with two,

627

:

was familiar, like, was, with the van,

because I have an old van.

628

:

I went there and, in November

to just test the tire

629

:

pressure for it, for next year,

for Roubaix for the for the thing.

630

:

And then I went

just every, every, sector.

631

:

I went with some.

632

:

I put my,

my tires up to four and a half bar.

633

:

How do you say it in that's like this

or four bar, 3.6 or something like that.

634

:

And then I would ride

350W over the Arenberg.

635

:

And then I would just measure my time

and then you will see, okay,

636

:

this is faster than this.

637

:

And then you have a quite

a good measurement, okay.

638

:

Which kind of a difference

I need to use to go as fast

639

:

as possible

over the, over the over the cobbles.

640

:

So yeah, this is, really nice things.

641

:

I always like to just also add

a little bit of a hobby to,

642

:

to just explore and to see how

I can regain some Watts there.

643

:

Yeah.

644

:

Alrighty.

645

:

And when we talk about tires,

let's go a step further.

646

:

I believe it was team DSM some years ago.

647

:

You would have some ultimate tire

adjusting boxes on their bikes.

648

:

You didn't race with them,

649

:

but apparently until the very last moment

they thought about it.

650

:

Have you ever tried one of them?

Where then?

651

:

With the little button, you can reduce the

pressure or put it higher?

652

:

For the pavé or for the flat sections.

653

:

Is that something

you would consider this winter

654

:

to go back to and test at Roubaix.

655

:

I think it's in perfect position.

656

:

Yeah, I go for it. Yeah, yeah,

yeah, exactly.

657

:

Because it's I think it's really cool.

658

:

I think it's, it's going to be extremely

beneficial if it works in a proper way.

659

:

I just went

I just hit my head with the injury.

660

:

So I, I when this all started

so I, I didn't, do it myself.

661

:

Now I do this road with myself.

662

:

But I think all the,

all the elements really interesting

663

:

and it's going to make a big difference

if it's working well.

664

:

So yeah, for sure it's a good one.

665

:

I going to you're going to write it down

666

:

and they're going to test it

in November directly. Yeah.

667

:

Please send us pictures.

668

:

Yeah okay. Well yeah.

669

:

So 2024 was a huge year

670

:

for one of your teammates

Biniam Girmay right.

671

:

You're on the Intermarché warranty team.

672

:

He crushed the tour de France won stages

won the green jersey.

673

:

What is he like.

674

:

What is what is being teammates with him

like is he a is he a good dude?

675

:

Is he fun to be around?

676

:

I like him a lot.

677

:

Winning,

678

:

is really, he's just a really lovely guy.

679

:

Is is really calm.

680

:

Is really, How do you say it?

681

:

It's it's a really nice, nice guy.

682

:

He's very down to earth.

683

:

He does not have a big mouth. Is is.

684

:

If you see now how big he is as a star

in his home country, it's incredible.

685

:

in Eritrea, it's it's, it's like

the president is more than the president.

686

:

It's. He's so famous.

687

:

But he's so down to earth

himself, and he's, I really like him.

688

:

And, and I know also the first time

689

:

when he was coming to the race and to to

I was like into a pole.

690

:

And I think it's more than three years ago

it was a little bit like,

691

:

oh, but yeah, again,

I get a really like a kid,

692

:

but already really,

a just a really nice guy.

693

:

And I was back then, I was already

so impressed about his capabilities.

694

:

And also he's riding in the bunch like,

you didn't do

695

:

a lot of racing also in Europe

and this kind of stuff.

696

:

But he's like incredibly good in

and handling his bike and also in

697

:

then going in the

bunch sprints and it's and

698

:

yeah,

I remember that we were at its first,

699

:

he was a stagiaire in our team then,

and at one point we were just talking to

700

:

I didn't learn, so I just,

701

:

I what's your what's your what you can do

better or your climber or your sprinter.

702

:

And now I'm a little bit good

in the small hills, but I'm quite fast

703

:

and we were looking at his legs.

704

:

And their legs are like

is nothing like a climber leg.

705

:

It's nothing.

706

:

and then we say oh, And there was one

sprinter of the teams, Andrea Pasqualon,

707

:

and he started a little sprint

and it was just it went so fucking fast.

708

:

It was this incredible,

so much faster than Pasqualon

709

:

Everybody was really surprised

because he wasn't.

710

:

If you see him,

you don't expect you so fast.

711

:

But, yeah, it's it's a big talent

and it's a lovely guy to work with.

712

:

Is also really thankful always for us,

for the guys who help him in the, in the,

713

:

in the, in the, in the races.

714

:

So it's, Yeah, I really like him.

715

:

I have to admit,

716

:

I had the chance to meet him a few times

at the tour de France.

717

:

Interviews.

718

:

He stops for us,

he gives, smart interviews,

719

:

he has a smile for everyone and just say

one of the first things I was.

720

:

Hey, the team did well today.

721

:

The team were great for me. So.

722

:

Yeah, it's it's easy to like him

a lot, right?

723

:

Yeah, it is.

724

:

And is also like some guys also

725

:

they know they just say it,

726

:

but they say it

because it's also good for to to say it.

727

:

But he also really feels like that

he's really thankful to us in every way.

728

:

And also when there are no cameras

or something is is there.

729

:

So it's, no, it's, it's a nice guy.

730

:

So given the fact that you had to take,

731

:

you know, 16 months off or a year off,

whatever it was, actually,

732

:

what would what what does

the end of the season look like for you?

733

:

What what would really make

this last couple months

734

:

of of the 2024

season, successful in your eyes?

735

:

Not not anyone else's, but yours.

736

:

Actually,

737

:

the most important thing is

that, healthy.

738

:

That's actually the most important thing

that I can do.

739

:

Also just ride my bike

that I can do daily life, that I can just

740

:

go to a restaurant with friends

without thinking about it,

741

:

that I have to be careful with something

or I did.

742

:

I can just ride my my bike for seven hours

in Andorra and enjoy the view

743

:

and that kind of things,

744

:

I think are the most important things

that I already achieved now.

745

:

So, I it's already a success,

I would say.

746

:

But furthermore, it's.

747

:

But then you

you I'm also you also you go to racing

748

:

and and everything you race,

you think this could be better directly.

749

:

Also, you want to do results

and maybe it's not, yeah.

750

:

It's really, Yeah.

751

:

You directly go for it

and directly go want to go for a result.

752

:

And I, I still hope

I can do a good result somewhere.

753

:

This, this weeks

and I, that can be close to a victory.

754

:

And maybe it works.

755

:

Maybe it doesn't work,

but that's what I'm aiming for.

756

:

And if I and

757

:

and I, I'm not going to say,

if I do this, then it will be a success.

758

:

If I, I just try my best every race

and to try to win the next few races.

759

:

I do. And, hopefully it works out. Well.

760

:

Maybe not.

761

:

And, that I did everything I could,

and then it's also fine.

762

:

So, yeah, there's.

763

:

So we can.

764

:

Bobby and me,

we can still feel the passion in you

765

:

to fire in you for a sport.

766

:

I mean, you want to try, you know,

your tire pressure for Paris-Roubaix.

767

:

May we ask what the contract situation is?

768

:

For you for 2025?

769

:

Yeah.

770

:

As in the moment, I don't have a contract.

771

:

So, I was, I signed,

a long term contract with Intermarché.

772

:

And now it's ending, so,

773

:

and I, I at the moment,

I don't know about my future.

774

:

I, I think everything going to be fine,

and I will be a pro cyclist, next year.

775

:

I think that's going to be.

That's going to be okay.

776

:

But I don't know where.

I don't know in my team.

777

:

I don't know

if it's going to be somewhere else.

778

:

So it's it's always exciting.

779

:

It's always a nervous period because you,

780

:

Yeah.

781

:

You want to have some.

782

:

You're doubting, of course, about.

Okay. What?

783

:

But it's going to be and it's also,

784

:

but, I still have to trust that

785

:

everything going to be all right,

but I hope I have some certainty soon.

786

:

Yeah,

787

:

well, Taco, you definitely come off

as being very cerebral.

788

:

You're a tinkerer.

789

:

You're experimenting with new things.

790

:

After you were well enough,

healthy enough, able enough

791

:

to watch the races on TV.

792

:

I assume you

you watch a lot of races on TV?

793

:

Have you learned anything with this last,

794

:

you know, from the current peloton

795

:

of this last year

that that really is interesting to you

796

:

because I've been out of the sport

a long time and watching,

797

:

you know, this year in particular,

there were some things that stood out.

798

:

But I'm curious

799

:

if there's any observations

that you've made, being on the sidelines,

800

:

the for sidelines over this last period

that that kind of, you know,

801

:

get your tinkering,

educated brain working in overdrive.

802

:

Actually I didn't watch so much cycling.

803

:

I, to be honest, like,

it's also maybe a bit of a,

804

:

defense mechanism for myself, too.

805

:

Don't go too much into cycling.

806

:

So I yeah, I had my head

a little bit on other things.

807

:

It was more of my, my,

808

:

my friends and my girlfriend

and my my personal life in general.

809

:

And I focused a little bit less on cycling

because it's

810

:

just painful that I couldn't be there.

811

:

Of course.

812

:

Yeah.

813

:

And also so it also, interested me

a little bit less, I think, too,

814

:

I just focused on a lot of things,

and I think that was good for my for my,

815

:

for my mental health also.

816

:

So, so, in that kind of way,

I didn't was too much.

817

:

I think I'll only for

from the tour de France.

818

:

I watched everything on,

so I, I can tell you something

819

:

about that, about superhumans like, what?

820

:

Got ya.

821

:

But, but furthermore, I, I yeah,

I didn't do much.

822

:

Hey, I have an easy question for you,

823

:

and it's

824

:

just a nice question so relax a little bit

Giro d’Italia:

825

:

Remember that I had to honor to commit

to hitting your stage when,

826

:

you were in a break for a long time,

right?

827

:

Yeah.

828

:

At one point, you started to hope

I could make it.

829

:

And at one point you actually know.

830

:

Oh, I actually, I have it.

831

:

Just remember you won was, what,

eight seconds or what was it?

832

:

Yeah,

something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

833

:

And you kept holding them.

834

:

You had what, at 20kms to go.

835

:

You had 25 seconds, something like that.

836

:

Right? Yeah.

837

:

I think it's, when I, attacked

838

:

with 10kms to go

I had around, 40s or something.

839

:

And then I went up first,

and then the last few kms, It went down

840

:

quite fast, but, yeah, it was,

it was a nervous situation.

841

:

Yeah. So.

842

:

And at one point, you started to think I.

843

:

It might just work out.

844

:

And at one point

you thought, yes, I have it.

845

:

Yeah, I think

846

:

I already like,

I think I jumped away from, from my,

847

:

to not a rider, but I was in the break

with with ten guys to go.

848

:

And, when I rode away, I,

I increased my, my gap

849

:

until one minute I didn't think, oh,

maybe this kind of, going to work.

850

:

But then it went down really fast.

851

:

So then I was a little bit

getting nervous, but in the, in the end,

852

:

in the, in the last km I, I,

I think I looked around

853

:

maybe once in the 10kms because, yeah,

it doesn't make sense.

854

:

You just have to go as hard as you can.

855

:

So, and but then I looked and then I say,

okay, this is going to be safe.

856

:

Just don't press

and then it's going to be safe.

857

:

So I think in the last k,

858

:

I knew it's going to be

it's kind of going to kinda work out.

859

:

So then, then the last few hundred meters,

I could just, celebrate.

860

:

Yeah.

861

:

There was, it was an amazing feeling

because I also was there.

862

:

Yeah, I didn't this I was in Jumbo before.

863

:

I didn't have some good years

in, in the with me cycling team.

864

:

I was struggling to get the contract.

865

:

And then in the end,

866

:

I was staying with Intermarché,

and then everything went really well.

867

:

And it was, it was,

was it really still my

868

:

before my biggest victory

and just a special moment.

869

:

Yeah.

870

:

My last question,

because we're coming towards

871

:

the end of time, is,

I had a friend who was a neurologist,

872

:

and he was super passionate about cycling,

like, rode his bike all the time.

873

:

I think he had like ten bikes

and he had a his third concussion.

874

:

He called it the third concussion rule.

875

:

And he had that and he just walked away.

876

:

He had to walk away

from riding his bike outside.

877

:

And then he didn't really enjoy it

riding inside as well.

878

:

But that was a major thing for him.

879

:

We all hope and pray that that,

880

:

you know, you get a contract

and you're again in the European peloton.

881

:

But if if you did

have to walk away from the sport,

882

:

I mean, you have an education.

883

:

You're a smart guy.

884

:

What other things outside of cycling

would you want to pursue

885

:

if if for some reason you

you didn't get a contract

886

:

or you had to stop due to another,

another, concussion?

887

:

What what what what do you want

to do the rest of your life?

888

:

I've been thinking about it.

889

:

I was forced to think about it a lot

because I also at one point in,

890

:

in, in the winter

I was thinking, okay, maybe

891

:

I'm never going to come back to cycling

because it was.

892

:

Yeah, there was no light

in the end of the tunnel.

893

:

And I have I think about it

also to step away from cycling,

894

:

need to go and do something

completely, completely different.

895

:

But in the end, I think I,

I will stay in the sport and

896

:

I think I will,

897

:

I think I would like it

to, to work as a trainer or as,

898

:

with my education,

I think my, my knowledge now

899

:

and my experience as a rider,

I think it's we'll see it quite well.

900

:

And, I think it would be really nice to,

901

:

to help young guys, to help other guys

to, to to develop.

902

:

I also work as a trainer.

903

:

Last year, a little bit more than some of

the other things I, I focus more on.

904

:

And I really like to, to train

some young guys to, to,

905

:

to help them achieve their goals

and to, to help them and,

906

:

and also I notice it

also in the team that I'm now writing now,

907

:

I really like to write

for these young guys and to, to,

908

:

to help them a little bit

in, in the water cycling and

909

:

so I think I want to do that

and, maybe go back to studying.

910

:

I also was thinking about that

maybe focus a little bit more in

911

:

mastering sport psychology.

912

:

Focus a little bit on that part

also because I kind of think

913

:

it can be really helpful

if are, training also.

914

:

That's more

the physiology and the psychology.

915

:

And then with my, my, my experience,

I think that's then

916

:

I will find my way in, in some kind of,

training or, physiology in cycling.

917

:

So I think, that's or in another sport

918

:

because I would love to see how it goes in

rowing or in athletics.

919

:

And I think it's fascinating,

how it will be there.

920

:

And, but I think training will be

921

:

the most my thing

to really work with, young athletes.

922

:

Yeah.

923

:

Taco, Thanks

a million for being our guest tonight.

924

:

It was fantastic to see you.

925

:

And I'm sure I can talk.

926

:

Also, in the name of all

our viewers and listeners.

927

:

We were all so happy to see you back and,

928

:

you know, back racing

and being back to be your normal self.

929

:

Right.

930

:

So thank you

one more time for being our guest.

931

:

We want to hear much more of your time

because we need some rest.

932

:

You're racing very soon right?

933

:

So thank you, thank you

thank you, thank you

934

:

and best of luck for the coming races.

935

:

Perfect.

936

:

Thank you, thank you.

937

:

Jens thank you Bobby.

938

:

Well, that's everything for this week.

939

:

Now please remember to follow us at Odd

Tandem on TikTok,

940

:

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook

and wherever you get your podcasts.

941

:

Thanks to Taco for joining the podcast.

942

:

And also remember,

if you want to see the video version

943

:

of this podcast,

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

944

:

Youtube.com slash at Odd Tandem.

945

:

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast

946

:

and your name into titles,

just head to our Patreon

947

:

where you can sign up for $5 a month

948

:

and help us to keep this podcast going.

949

:

That's patreon.com/oddtandem.

950

:

Thanks to our Patreon members

Scott, Steven Kimbrough, Marie

951

:

Teixeira, Jeff Kralik, Brian Colon,

Chris Merritt,

952

:

Tim Farriss, Jim, David Swartwout,

Bill Babcock, Nancy Ness,

953

:

Michael Terblanche, Jim Burns,

954

:

Swim school Bob, Steve, Scott Nabors,

955

:

Joseph and Philip Shama who’ve done

just that.

956

:

And remember, if you want your question

in our next mailbag episode,

957

:

make sure to keep sending us your

questions to Ooddtandem@shockedgiraffe.com

958

:

or any of our oddtandem

social media channels

959

:

And please keep sharing the

960

:

podcast and keep leaving your reviews

wherever you're listening.

961

:

It really helps us to build our audience.

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.