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Published on:

6th Sep 2024

Sven Nys: The king of cross

Sven Nys is a cyclocross superstar, he has two world titles in the discipline, leads the powerful Baloise Trek Lions team and now guides his superstar son Thibau's career.

He popped into speak with Bobby and Jens about how he dominated his sport, and how he passes on what he learnt to the next generation.

This episode of the Odd Tandem is also available in video form by searching for The Odd Tandem on youtube and ad free on our Patreon site.

Transcript
Speaker:

Hello everyone, and welcome back

to the odd tandem.

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With cyclocross season

right around the corner.

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We got to sit down today

with one of the best cyclocross riders,

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not only of his generation,

but possibly of all time.

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He is now a general manager for

the Baloise Trek Lions cyclocross team.

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Jens, how great was that conversation?

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It was a great conversation

and I love to hear how quickly

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he transitioned from being the World

Star, Superstar winning

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two races per weekend

to become a team leader and going

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yeah, I love to win every race,

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but I also realistically know

we cannot win all the races.

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And you know, it's not easy for

a superstar to adapt to that situation.

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So I loved his answer there,

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how he works with the team

and to share the pressure in between them.

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It was a fantastic chat we had.

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And not only that,

talking about his cyclocross team,

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but his son Thibau Nys is ripping up

his second year in the world tour.

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I mean, he just came on

as a stage last year and this year so far

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he has nine wins.

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So sit back and relax and listen to our

awesome conversation with Sven. Nys.

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All right everyone,

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welcome back

to another episode of The Odd Tandem.

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Today we have Sven Nys with us Sven.

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Welcome to the odd tandem.

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Nice to have me.

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Thank you. You know,

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I think Jens, correct me if I'm wrong,

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that you're like the first,

like real cyclocross guy.

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We've had we've had mechanics.

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We've had some years

we've had cooks, riders.

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Obviously DS’s, but like this is going

to be fun because cyclocross season

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is right around the corner

and we just happen

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to have one of the best cyclocross

riders of all time with us today.

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So, Sven, I mean, cyclocross

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is a super intense effort.

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What drew you to cyclocross?

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Back in the day when you first started?

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Actually, BMX, when I was a kid,

I started when I was five years old

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with BMX.

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A lot of kids in my neighborhood

were riding the BMX bikes.

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And, a certain moment,

my parents brought me to a competition,

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and I did it until my 15 years old.

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And then BMX in Europe,

was getting a little bit more down.

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It was not an Olympic sport

at that moment,

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and I was looking for something new

where I could use my skills,

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my explosivity, and then, yeah, cyclocross

was already really popular in Belgium.

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We had at that time a world champion

in my neighborhood in the elite category.

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That was Danny de Bie.

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When I was a kid,

I was riding with my Belgian flag

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to do this, through the neighborhood

where he was living

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when he arrived from Pontchâteau,

the world Championships he won, and I was

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celebrating together with all the fans

that he won the World Championships.

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And that's my first experience,

my first passion I created for that sport.

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I was watching TV all weekend, and then I

said, okay, maybe I need to try that.

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Also, I can jump barriers, jump ditches

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where all the other guys needs to run,

with the bike on the shoulder.

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And I tried in competition and directly

I felt in love

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and I never stopped anymore until my 39th.

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So what do you think's

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when is it that in Belgium,

particular cyclocross is so popular?

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I mean, if for our viewers,

if you ever check on the internet.

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Belgium's hacker races,

they're spectators.

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It's tour de France style, right?

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10,000 of spectators around the circuit.

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Well, what?

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Why do you think?

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Why is it particular in Belgium

so popular?

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It was at that time also really popular

in other countries in Europe.

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Because, mountain bike was at that time

not an Olympic sport

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and a lot of, money, a lot of budgets

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went into cyclocross as, as a, as a sport.

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But at the moment

when mountain bike in Atlanta 96

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became an Olympic sport,

all the federations

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put all their money in, in mountain bike

and then a lot of countries,

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lost the interest in cyclocross,

but not Belgium.

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We we already invested a lot

with television, with,

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with organizations in the sport, and,

we stayed there.

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We understand

really well that that everybody wins

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when you come to a cyclocross.

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The rider because it's, it's, it's

something spectacular.

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But also the fans, they pay

a low budgets to come in the event

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and they see a whole day cyclocross races

from young kids until the elite,

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elite riders who are doing something

special in the field,

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running, jumping barriers,

and really intense on a high heart rate.

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And, we understand that business wise.

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That would also really interesting

for everybody.

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The fans, the promoters, the,

the brands who were investing in it.

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And that's something,

I always told myself.

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Why is that so difficult

in other countries?

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We created the last five,

six years in Waterloo with, with track,

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the World Cup over there

and I think they, they understood

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really well that, with the company,

we did something great over there.

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There was,

there was a huge party for everybody.

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They could join the event,

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they could write on the course

where the elite riders were riding.

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It was a party for everybody.

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And that's what we do every week

from September until the end of February.

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In cyclocross and covering on TV

is is pretty easy with a low budget.

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And that's not so easy with road cycling,

where everybody can go free to an event.

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Here you pay money to come to an event,

so everybody's winning.

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And that's so interesting.

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About cyclocross.

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I've never been to a

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cyclocross race over in, in Belgium

or in Europe at all.

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So for our viewers and our listeners

kind of paint the scene

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because what I fail to understand

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is you're out in a big, huge field

or course.

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Right. And but people pay.

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So how how do you block that off.

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So people actually have to pass through

a, I don't know, a ticket booth

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or something like that

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kind of set the stage of what

it would take to get into one of these

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events and what, what you could expect

during the day other than the racing.

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You can compare it with, motorcycling,

motocross,

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that's really popular in the US.

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It's really popular

also in Europe, world championships,

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all over the all over the,

the world today they host events.

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So they, they create an event

and it's all around, blocked with fans.

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So you need to come, like, in a stadium,

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and pay a ticket to come to the event.

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And the rest of the, the event

is blocked, so you can't come in.

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And once you are in, you are,

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coming to a party tent

where you can drink beer.

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Eat some French fries, burgers.

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There is music there.

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It's a huge festival.

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But in the end of the day, you see also,

high level performance from athletes

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that not only rightly cyclocross,

but combine also other disciplines.

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In the past,

we had already Adri van der Poel

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had that front from Mathuieu,

for example.

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That's a huge, example.

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He won classics in spring, but he also was

one of the big guys in cyclocross.

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And you can come really close to

to the riders

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who are doing something special.

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And, you see,

and now we're, high intense racing

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and it's always in the same area.

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For example, when you go to Tour

of Flanders, you're sitting on the street,

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and if you have luck,

you see them 2 or 3 times

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and all the rest of the race

you need to follow on TV.

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But in cyclocross,

all the fans are like in the stadium.

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And watch the race the whole hour.

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And there's happening a lot of things

because the weather changes.

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You need like in formula One, you need

to, to go to the bit a chains, bikes

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change tires because the grip you lost,

you lost some grip.

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So it's also tactical.

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You have guys in the pit

you need to clean your bike.

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Every other three, four minutes.

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You need to change your bike sometimes.

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And that makes things so, so interesting.

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It's always the same guys who are coming

every week,

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together to compete against each other,

but also the mechanics around the riders.

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They they,

they are going to be on television

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because they interview, those guys

when they working on the bikes.

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And what are you doing?

What are you changing?

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How much pressure is in the tire?

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So it's it's becoming

something really special.

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And everybody in Belgium knows what

the, the, the threat of, of, of cyclocross

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tires are because we are talking about

it's the whole winter and,

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and these are the things that make

cyclocross so interesting.

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And of course now with the huge,

ambassadors for our sport,

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like Wout van Aert or Mathieu

van der Poel, it's getting also bigger.

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A lot of WorldTour teams

getting also more interest into our sport

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because they see that all the skills

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you are using in cyclocross,

you can use them also on the road,

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you are more, technical,

you are more, in control in a platform.

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The acceleration is there

and the intensity helps you a lot.

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In the final of a cycle of a cycling,

classic, for example.

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Okay.

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You need to have also the distance

and train long distance in summer

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and also in winter to prepare also,

summer season.

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But combining those two, that makes you

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a more complete athlete

than only ride in one discipline.

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So and that also explains why Mathieu

van der Poel he can race the world

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championships and like two months later,

he can win Amstel Gold race.

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Right?

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Because he's training hard

on a high intensity level all winter long.

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So it helps him

getting quicker into the season.

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Yeah, but it's not for all the riders

because mature, the he's a special guy.

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He can combine high intensity races

in cyclocross.

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And for example, a day later

doing a distance

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training for five six hours on three

on the quads, for example.

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Not all athletes can do that.

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I know that he's training in Benidorm

and, around Spain

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the days before the World Cup,

cyclocross.

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And he's doing, the day before

even three, 4 or 5 hours,

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then do a race win that race.

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And the day after, he's doing again,

five hours.

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It's not every athlete who can do that,

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but definitely a lot of,

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riders

who are doing really well on the road

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for the moment starts,

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something inside

in cycling with cyclocross,

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Peter Sagan, one of the guys who did

cyclocross, mountain bike.

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Alaphilippe, one of those guys who also,

did cyclocross, on a young age.

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And those intensity and acceleration.

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Yeah, I see I think my son

now is a really good example, from,

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using all his cyclocross

skills and coming also a world to rider.

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Now, it.

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So how many times a week

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would you actually race a cyclocross race?

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It seems like pretty much 4 or 5 days

a week.

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You could.

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But like in your training phase plan.

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Do you do like a two day block?

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A three day block, day on, day off,

how many per week would you actually race?

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Competition? You mean race?

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Yeah. It depends on the, the period.

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And it depends,

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if you are combining, different

disciplines, for example, a rider

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like Wout van Aert, Mathiueu van der Poel,

they do let we say,

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then maximum 15,

cyclocross races in the season.

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My son is in the middle.

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He's doing now 20, 22 cyclocross races

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and the more more volume in cyclocross

because he's younger.

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And he needs also the intensity

and work on his, physical skills.

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Still,

but if you are a complete cyclocross rider

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and only focus on cyclocross

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and using the road

only to prepare yourself for cyclocross,

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then you are riding, between 30

and 40 races a season.

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And that means almost every weekend,

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double Saturday, Sunday,

and in the Christmas period I can

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almost say every day.

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So between 20th December and let we say

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5th of January day,

they almost race every day.

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So then there's not much training

possible, right?

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How did you negotiate it

back in your days?

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You just race and then just go

home, recover, lay down and race again

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because you cannot do more

now, riding right after a race,

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the biggest work needs to be done

before the cyclocross season started.

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You need to build a big, strong wall.

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And every time you're going to erase,

that's that's how I explain it

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a little bit more easy. You hit the wall.

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Always one hour heart rate.

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Full.

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180-185.

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Average heart rate.

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During a cycle cross race.

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And you hit the wall every, every time.

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The stronger the wall is

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the longer you can hold your shape,

the longer you can hold your condition.

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And you recover really quick

after the race.

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And you can train already on Tuesday

again.

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Really good.

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And that helps you,

when you have a small engine,

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in the beginning of the season,

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you can compete against the bigger

and stronger athletes.

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But in the end, you see that your shape

is going down a little bit more.

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And then,

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they need to think about, okay,

maybe do a little bit less intensity,

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less races, go to a training camp

in Spain, train some distance again

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to build up something,

something bigger again,

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and then prepare yourself

for the second part of the season

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where the championships

are, are, planned in the calendar.

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So it depends of what, what an athlete

you are, what can you handle,

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and how do you recover

from all those high intensity races?

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So give me a little bit of a

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phase plan, because as a road cyclist,

you know, our season would end.

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We'd start training, say, again

in the middle of November,

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December 1st at the very latest. Right.

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Then we would go through the spring.

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We'd have a little bit of a break,

then we'd build up for the tour,

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and then after the tour,

it was just kind of like

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if you had it, you could keep going.

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But when do cyclocross riders

prepare that wall?

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When do they do that endurance training,

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and then when do they shift

more to the racing?

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They do, let me say

between 30 and 40 cyclocross season.

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That's a classic cyclocross rider.

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And then he stops in the end of February.

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And then let me say, like a road, rider,

he has a small month,

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march that he's recovering

from all those races and competition.

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And then in the beginning of April,

he starts building on his shape again.

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Power training course, stability,

building up distance,

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going on training camp again in Spain,

because it's in Belgium.

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Or in Europe, the weather is not so good.

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Then they go to the, to the, to Spain

to, to have better weather

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training distance.

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And then in the end of May,

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they come in competition on the road again

to not do that.

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Then they have the distance,

but then they build up the intensity again

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in, in, in road

races, state races, continental states

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races, like Tour of Belgium, for example.

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That's one good example

that today most mostly do.

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And then the intensity building up again.

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And then in the end of August,

beginning of September,

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they start to train in cyclocross again,

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in the fields two, three times a week,

combining distance,

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until the start of the cyclocross season.

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And that's, that's, yeah, basically

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the way how we done it the last 25 years.

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But now things are changing really quick

because riders are combining

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a lot of, disciplines.

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And so,

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for example, now with Thibault and Wout

van Art, what you have on the pool,

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they don't go in a recovery mode

for 3 or 4 weeks anymore.

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So they make small recovery

weeks for five, six days.

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And they not drop their,

their condition anymore

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that deep as we did in the past.

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So they not gained weight anymore.

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They stay really sharp.

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So after five six days

they start training again

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and they are really quick

on the really high level.

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And but they do it more often

so that in the end of the year

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they have the same days of recovery,

but more spreaded in the year.

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So like Thibau

now, he, done tour of Poland.

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He's done a, a last weekend

and now is six days in recovery mode,

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and then start training again

for cyclocross season.

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But he did that already

also off the cyclocross season.

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He did that that already

in the end of June after tour of Swiss

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for five, six days

and went on a holiday for five, six days.

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So in the end it's almost three weeks.

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Also, but it's spread it into the year.

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So you are a long career, right?

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You finished what, at the age of 38

or 39? 39.

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Yeah. 39. Yes.

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With tickets these days,

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I find it hard to believe they will last

until you are 39 years old.

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Or like in my case, 42, because they do,

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you know, mountain

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biking, cyclocross and road racing

and all at a very high level.

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So, I don't see them

having 20 years of career

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or you think the way they organize it,

it's so smart.

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They can also go for many, many years.

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It depends. What rider it is.

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You see more often

now that they write less races.

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That's also the reason is also

that otherwise the pressure is always on,

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like what you have on the bull

when they coming to a race,

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it's always for winning.

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If they don't win, they need to talk

to the press and say, hey,

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that's the reason why I don't won.

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That's also the reason why they not race

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that, so much anymore.

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Like, like in the past,

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because they need to recover

not only physically but also mentally.

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It's not this, these days.

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It's not only going about pressure in the

race, but it's also pressure.

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When you train

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your food, your sleep, your,

everything is measured.

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Everything is on pressure,

and on a certain moment

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you are going to have mental problems

because of that.

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And that's the reason why they

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they take more short breaks to recover

from all those things.

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But for sure, it's a good question.

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Yes.

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It's a new generation,

and we need to see how long it's going to,

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Yeah, to have all those athletes

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on a high on a high intensity, capacity.

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Because I don't know, actually,

it's something new for the moment.

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And we need to experience

what's going to happen with those guys.

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But you need to to have fun.

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And if you if you're losing the fun

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and in training and competition,

then it's going down really quickly.

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But let's face it, Sven,

you lived through this.

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You were that champion.

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You were the one that if you didn't win,

you had to answer the reasons why.

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You run your own cyclocross team

and your son, like you said,

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is an amazing athlete with a huge future

both on the cycle and in cyclocross.

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And on the road.

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What are the

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tricks that you used to deal

with this pressure?

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Number one,

and what do you kind of convey to your son

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and your riders, of what you've learned

in, you know,

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those little tricks of the trade

for dealing with this?

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Because dang,

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Belgium and Holland

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in cyclocross is pressure.

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Yeah.

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You know, Belgium in particularly

basically for any cycling sport,

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you know, the pressure is massive.

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And sometimes I just feel so sorry

for these kids.

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Tell us a little bit about what

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what you suggest to these young riders.

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What I, what

I told my son, in the beginning

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when he wanted and he had the dream to

to become also a cyclocross rider.

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I said directly, hey, but it's not easy

because everybody is going to to

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to see and to come compare

with what I did in the past.

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And,

you need to, to know that it's not easy.

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And he said directly,

but that's my dream. That's my goal.

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That's what I want.

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And I told them directly,

okay, what you are going to learn, handle

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pressure, handle also, losing something,

winning something.

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Communicate.

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Traveling around the world,

talking in other languages.

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This is something that you are going

to learn much more quick

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than when you are, becoming something,

when you are going to study, because.

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And going to work

because it's going much faster.

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The pressure that, the, yeah.

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The way how you need to

to learn what your body is,

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how your body is reacting on everything,

it's going to help you also in life

390

:

when it's not going to be what you want

in the end of the of these days.

391

:

And that helped a little, a little bit.

392

:

But what I'm doing right now

is try to create a team

393

:

with guys who can help each other.

394

:

If you have, one guy who is always

in, in the lead, always

395

:

is that one guy who needs to to,

to be the guy who wins the races.

396

:

The pressure is on.

397

:

But I have now three last year for guys

who are on the same level.

398

:

And when one guy was doing less results,

399

:

the other guys were on the podium.

400

:

So and then the pressure is a little bit

going down

401

:

and they can help each other,

when they have a bad day.

402

:

And that's a few presents that

you can drop the pressure a little bit.

403

:

Because

404

:

when, when there is one leader,

one guy who always needs

405

:

to, to be there,

it makes things more complicated.

406

:

And that's what I try to, to do,

make a team with guys who help each other

407

:

when not only, have a really good day,

but also when they have a bad day.

408

:

And these are the things that are

really important in a team for the moment.

409

:

I love the way you put it.

410

:

You explain it to support each other,

help each other.

411

:

Because my my question was you were like

412

:

the first big superstar

cyclocross, right?

413

:

Multiple times world champion.

414

:

You used to win

basically twice per weekend.

415

:

So when you started

the team, was that hard for you?

416

:

When you say, okay, normally in this,

in this months I would win six races.

417

:

Now you the entire team, you only won one.

418

:

Was it hard for you to accept it?

419

:

Or you you you realized.

420

:

No, he did all he can

and that's all that I can ask of them.

421

:

Or was it a learning process

for you to understand?

422

:

We need to separate

or to to spread the pressure a little bit

423

:

because you want so many races for you?

424

:

Probably it was easy to win. Yeah.

425

:

For some people it's not right.

426

:

No, no, no.

427

:

That's it was a learning process

because I'm a winner.

428

:

I want to win. If if for each. Yeah.

429

:

If I think about it

I want to win every race.

430

:

But it's not easy.

431

:

And I directly said to myself, okay,

I can't,

432

:

always go to my riders.

433

:

I say, but hey,

this is what I did in the past.

434

:

And when you do it like that,

you are going to win also races.

435

:

No no no no. Things are changing.

436

:

You need to, you need to learn not.

437

:

They don't need to learn only from me.

438

:

I need also to learn from them

because, they have now new technology.

439

:

There's now

a new experience in the peloton.

440

:

They ride with other bikes

than what we do.

441

:

For example, I raced only one year

with this breaks in cyclocross.

442

:

So the way how they handle a bike

right now is completely different

443

:

than what I did.

444

:

So I need to do to understand also that

445

:

cycling is changing

and that I need to learn also from them.

446

:

And if you can communicate

with the riders,

447

:

the way I try to do

that helps to learn from each other.

448

:

And then become one and one become three.

449

:

And that's what we try to do.

450

:

I use my experience.

451

:

They also give me the information

from in the peloton.

452

:

And then we combine

and try to to make huge steps.

453

:

That's what I try to do. But

454

:

getting

455

:

everything out of an athlete, it's for me

much more important

456

:

than try to win

as much as I did in the past.

457

:

I love that.

458

:

I love that I want to break this up

a little bit with a technical question,

459

:

because I do really enjoy

watching cyclocross races.

460

:

We don't get them over here.

461

:

But now with all the streaming things

we can tune into them quite a bit.

462

:

Not to brag here, but I was a junior

463

:

national champion in cyclocross in 1989.

464

:

Yeah. Wow.

465

:

So I've got.

466

:

Yeah. So I got a little experience here.

467

:

But one of the questions

that I have is dismounting these days

468

:

when I was riding, the brake, you know,

the brakes were reversed.

469

:

So I had my rear brake on the left,

and I would

470

:

if I was dismounting on the left,

because I couldn't do it on the right.

471

:

Anyway, I would swing my leg,

472

:

you know, around, and I would step through

with my right leg,

473

:

through

between my, my left leg and the frame

474

:

so that we were taught that that way

you can start running right away.

475

:

But now I see the best.

476

:

Pidcock, Mathieu, Wout.

477

:

They all flip their

leg around on the outside.

478

:

When did that

479

:

change or was

I just taught wrong in the first place.

480

:

No. Both are good.

481

:

But you need to understand that

when you, go with your foot

482

:

between the bracket and your,

your other leg,

483

:

you make more speed

because you do one step to the front.

484

:

If you swing your leg

and do one step back,

485

:

then you are without brakes already.

486

:

Dropping the speed a little bit.

487

:

And that's the reason why a lot of riders

more love to to do one step back.

488

:

And it's also less complicated

when you're clicked in your pedal.

489

:

The foot that's on the pedal,

490

:

if you can't click out

quick enough, you are going to crash.

491

:

If you put your foot behind, your body,

then you brake already a little bit

492

:

and it's much more easy to click out

the other foot out of the pedal.

493

:

That's the reason why

494

:

a lot of riders are doing the opposite

than what you did in the past.

495

:

But it's it's faster what you are doing,

but it's more complicated.

496

:

And just to remind you again, the,

I used toe clips back in:

497

:

We didn't have the, the clip out pedal,

so it was a little bit trickier.

498

:

But, no, I've just been thinking

about that for multiple years now.

499

:

So thank you, Sven, for that. Yeah.

500

:

That explanation.

501

:

Yeah.

502

:

It's, it's, I learned a lot

503

:

when I, doing clinics

also for people dismounting a bike.

504

:

It's not that easy. Like,

everybody's thinking it.

505

:

It looks really easy.

506

:

But do it on a high speed

with a heart rate of 181, 85.

507

:

It's completely different.

Then, then do it really slow

508

:

and adding

509

:

your pressure

as that obstacle is approaching you.

510

:

You don't.

511

:

There's this big block of wood

or stone sitting there.

512

:

You got to jump across.

513

:

So you need to be able to stop

and get your foot on the ground before.

514

:

Yeah, it's when we have something.

515

:

Yes. No, no, you can jump them also.

516

:

Yes.

517

:

Yeah I know, I know,

I don't want to jump anything.

518

:

We need to keep our rubber on the

on the dirt.

519

:

Yeah. No, no.

520

:

And you need to understand.

521

:

And I like it's really, really a lot.

522

:

What what I see right now.

523

:

You need to understand that we right

with normally with the pressure

524

:

and it's in bar.

525

:

So you need to

you need to, explain it to be easy,

526

:

but it's a one between 1 and 1.5 bar,

527

:

that we are riding in competition

on the highest, highest speed.

528

:

So it's almost nothing. That's the limit.

529

:

1.5 bar. It's maximum.

530

:

Yeah, I remember that when we met at,

531

:

cyclocross World Cup

in, in in Madison in the US.

532

:

I was, I'm a road cyclist.

533

:

I was at least on four and a half. Yeah.

534

:

And you were just laughing at you're like,

that's that's what I need to feel safe.

535

:

That was one and a half.

536

:

Everything's just wobbling around

537

:

and I wouldn't feel

I have any control of my bike.

538

:

That's what you do, right? Yeah.

539

:

That's the reason why we can't race

for the moment in cyclocross with tires.

540

:

We tried.

541

:

We tested, but there is so much pressure

542

:

on the tire

that it's always coming off the rim.

543

:

Because the pressure of the,

the the, the, there is too much less,

544

:

air in the, in the tire

and it's always coming off.

545

:

So they need to glued on the rim.

546

:

Otherwise we have problems.

547

:

You mean to to tubeless.

548

:

No, no.

549

:

Yeah.

550

:

In in road racing

they don't ride tubes anymore.

551

:

So they are not glued on the rim anymore.

552

:

And,

we see more and more that for example,

553

:

also track, but also other companies

they test more and more to,

554

:

to bring also the, the the tires

555

:

into cyclocross, into so that, that

556

:

they don't need to glue anymore

the tire on the rim.

557

:

But we can't handle with that low

pressure, the tire,

558

:

on the rim because it's always coming

off, for our viewers, viewers

559

:

and our listeners.

560

:

Our producer Mark

just sent me a note saying that 1.5 bar

561

:

basically translates to 20 psi a

that's the max of that.

562

:

That is insane.

563

:

Yeah, that that is basically riding around

on a flat tire.

564

:

Yeah. I'm always feeling the rim.

565

:

You always feeling the rim.

566

:

And when you come in a corner,

you hear the noise of a of a tire

567

:

that's coming off the rim.

568

:

That's, that's the noise you have always

when you're doing cyclocross.

569

:

And also, when I

570

:

try to lower tire pressure,

with the tubeless

571

:

because the lower pressure,

the ends of the tire

572

:

are not really squeezed

tight enough to the rim.

573

:

And then when you do it, like,

especially the one before the,

574

:

the factory hit, the tricky downhill

steep down was a two turns

575

:

and something

I even think you call it, tire fart.

576

:

You know, like the tire separates

because of the pressure

577

:

and you lose, it separates from the rim

and you go and you're basically flat.

578

:

Yeah, through.

579

:

That's true.

580

:

But but, imagine, riding

bunny to bear for the moment.

581

:

The roads ride with the pressure

and the tires they are doing right now.

582

:

They are riding with the same,

583

:

33, 30, 33 millimeter tires

than what we do in cyclocross.

584

:

It's a completely different sport than 20,

25 years ago when Jens Foyt was riding

585

:

the cobblestones, with with small,

narrow, tubes and five, six bar.

586

:

And now they ride with three, three

and a half bar.

587

:

It's completely different.

588

:

Hey, m to n we got something.

589

:

Quite a quick fire.

590

:

I give you four questions.

591

:

You got to choose one of them. Okay?

592

:

I'm ready for that. Yeah, it's easy.

593

:

Frites with mayo or ice cream?

594

:

Frites with mayo.

595

:

I, of course,

you're a proper Belgian, right?

596

:

That's what you do already.

597

:

Cycling or snooker?

598

:

Cycling?

599

:

Cyclocross or mountain biking?

600

:

Cyclocross.

601

:

What is more stressful

competing in Paris-Roubaix

602

:

yourself or watching table racing?

603

:

Watching TV racing.

604

:

Definitely.

605

:

Already

I think I would have answered the same.

606

:

Oh yeah, I went to the first couple stones

in Roubaix

607

:

three times and okay, I was nervous,

608

:

but I could control the bike myself.

609

:

But now I'm watching TV

or I'm, at the race and I'm seeing my son

610

:

and I want to do so much things

and I can't do anything anymore.

611

:

So that's so stressful.

612

:

And of course,

I hope that he don't crash sometimes.

613

:

I'm commentating also for Belgium

television and there is a bunch

614

:

sprint coming

and he's always, always there also.

615

:

And then I'm out of control. It's

not easy.

616

:

Yeah, it is so cool.

617

:

I mean, Jens and I are 53.

618

:

You're a little bit younger,

but at least the age gap

619

:

is in 20 or 30 years, like

with some of our guests that we have on.

620

:

So, you know, we're all fathers

and it's just so cool to see

621

:

so many riders coming up

622

:

that their mother or father

were were cyclists.

623

:

Yeah. They never saw something else.

624

:

Thibau was always, in my neighborhood

when I did cyclocross.

625

:

It's different than on the road

626

:

that we traveled with my family,

every weekend to the race.

627

:

My son was always there.

628

:

The first thing that came out of the truck

629

:

was his bike to control,

the parking area.

630

:

If the

if the tires of his bike were okay.

631

:

And he was always,

he was three years and a half

632

:

when

we had not had cycling shoes for him,

633

:

but he put his shoe in my cycling shoe,

and then he taped them

634

:

around his pedals that he was clipped in

like like like like, is that crazy?

635

:

It crashed every other minute,

but he was standing up and riding again.

636

:

And that's the way

how everything started. Wow.

637

:

That's cool.

638

:

Hey, I don't know if this is

if you can answer this question because,

639

:

you know, champions like yourself

sometimes are think on a different plane.

640

:

But who did you enjoy racing against

641

:

in cyclocross,

or was it just pure war out there?

642

:

You didn't you didn't

have you weren't able to have friends?

643

:

Oh yeah.

644

:

I and well friends is different

645

:

than than than, respect

for all the riders who I raced with,

646

:

but the one, I like

the most to compete against was, by,

647

:

because Steve Barr was.

648

:

He was younger than me, ten years,

but he was always thinking

649

:

on the same moment at the, this

650

:

he wanted to do the same move

on the same moment, like I did.

651

:

So when I thought,

okay, now I need to do a move.

652

:

Move about did the same.

653

:

He had the same acceleration.

654

:

He was younger.

655

:

So, when we came in a sprint,

he was just a little bit more explosive.

656

:

He loved.

657

:

And he had the passion for cyclocross,

like.

658

:

Like I did.

659

:

I saw him last week in Spain,

660

:

and still we have a good connection

together.

661

:

I'm a little bit disappointed that he,

662

:

Yeah.

663

:

Moved to road

racing a little bit too early,

664

:

I think, because combining a little bit

longer helped him in his career.

665

:

Also a little bit more, I think.

666

:

But okay, that's his choice.

667

:

But Steve Barr was, for me, the guy.

668

:

I lost 2 or 3 world championships against

him, but I never felt the guy who lost.

669

:

I felt myself, really proud

670

:

that we had, the battle

until the finish line.

671

:

And that's really nice.

672

:

So back in your days

when you would go to World Cup weekend,

673

:

for example, racing twice,

how big was your team?

674

:

How many people get you bring?

675

:

How many bikes actually did you bring.

676

:

And you change bikes

depending on the weather, of course, every

677

:

lap or twice a lap or how many bikes,

how much material would you need

678

:

for like a double weekend in a World Cup

bike and back in your career?

679

:

It never changed, actually.

680

:

But it's still the same.

681

:

Every rider I did

also had four cyclocross bikes

682

:

every race, in my truck,

683

:

ten pairs of wheels

with different threats, different,

684

:

yeah,

685

:

sizes

also from the from the from the tire,

686

:

where I could choose

what I'm going to do in the race and,

687

:

I had, 2 or

688

:

3 mechanics

that were always working in the pits

689

:

or near the track to,

to prepare, the competition bikes.

690

:

I at once when you're at the finish line.

691

:

And my dad was always there to, to right

692

:

the track from race to race against, the.

693

:

Yeah, he was also there,

my wife was there and my son. So.

694

:

But guys who worked with me

always the same four,

695

:

five guys, and that's for every rider.

696

:

So that's completely different

than in, road racing.

697

:

In my team, for the moment,

every rider has his own truck with his own

698

:

four bikes, his own ten pairs of wheels,

his own four, five mechanics.

699

:

And it's one, street,

which:

700

:

who are in that own cocoon

preparing that cyclocross race.

701

:

And we as coaches, we go from truck

to truck to see, hey, can we help?

702

:

Can we support?

703

:

Is this the perfect

the perfect preparation for you?

704

:

Do you need something?

Do we need to change? Change?

705

:

And we are in the pits

to communicate with the mechanics.

706

:

And that's that's how cyclocross is going.

707

:

That is cool.

708

:

So you go from being that ultra catered

to athlete

709

:

to now catering to the athletes.

710

:

Yeah.

711

:

I think it's always interesting,

you know, with, with coaching

712

:

or being the general manager of a team,

713

:

you always think to yourself,

714

:

I want to ensure that this rider has

what I wish I had.

715

:

Yeah. When I was racing through. Right.

716

:

So how was that transition going from

717

:

the person that's getting

all the attention, getting all this,

718

:

this, this special stuff to being the one

that has to think about that.

719

:

Was that an easy transition for you?

720

:

Yeah, for me it was really easy because

I never forgot from where I come from.

721

:

And step off the bike

and walk around the venue

722

:

and, using all my knowledge

723

:

and helping other guys win a race,

I loved it.

724

:

And for me, it was not difficult to say,

hey, I won, two world championships.

725

:

I won all those World Cups.

726

:

I'm not going to walk around the course

and going with my foot in the mud again.

727

:

And no, no, no, for me,

that's what I lost the most for me.

728

:

It's, that's that's why I stayed

in, in the sport, not to sit around,

729

:

a table and talk with, with,

730

:

with, with brands

and see if we can do something together.

731

:

Okay.

732

:

That's also a part of my job,

733

:

but what I love the most is being

in the fields, talking with the riders,

734

:

helping them,

running as hell from from left to right

735

:

and to communicate with the riders

that they need to to find another line.

736

:

Because whether it's changing,

they need to know pressure of the tire.

737

:

That's what I yeah,

that's what second cross is still for me.

738

:

And it was really, really easy.

739

:

When I stopped I felt, okay, it's enough,

740

:

I won what I, what I dreamed of,

I lost and it's okay.

741

:

I don't have a problem with it.

742

:

It is what it is.

743

:

And now it's time for something

completely new.

744

:

And we going to try to let other guys,

the younger generation win also races.

745

:

And when I can help them, that's my dream.

746

:

I got

to like, another technical question.

747

:

In your career and also now,

how many changes

748

:

like change, right,

you go through in a season?

749

:

I mean, if you have a muddy,

rainy weekend in Belgium,

750

:

to change is done after one weekend.

751

:

No no no no no.

752

:

Okay.

753

:

No no no, let's say every bike.

754

:

So for bikes we change three maximum

four times the change.

755

:

Okay.

756

:

That's less than I thought. Yeah.

757

:

And you need to know also that

we not always using the four bikes during,

758

:

during a competition day

because sometimes

759

:

50% of the races,

you can race with one bike

760

:

because it's dry,

it's really fast running through the sand.

761

:

And then you have the damage on

the chain is not that big.

762

:

But it depends of, Yeah.

763

:

How, how the season is going.

764

:

If it rains from October until February,

you need to use more change.

765

:

But with four bikes, it's

it's it's doable.

766

:

Hey, Jens, when was the last time

you changed your chain on your bicycle?

767

:

Actually,

768

:

I have a cyclo cross bike,

which is out of production now for many,

769

:

many years, and I still have a cable sram

set on there.

770

:

It was the hottest stuff ever

when I got it.

771

:

Brand new, and I think, I think

I still have the same chain cassette.

772

:

The one.

773

:

Yeah.

774

:

Like, yeah, I was going to say,

775

:

but it's only it's only two of my gears

that work, only two mixed with bike.

776

:

But I, I'm just too lazy

and I do it tomorrow.

777

:

I do it tomorrow.

778

:

It'll work

good enough. It'll work good enough.

779

:

Sven, I've heard a rumor that cyclocross

780

:

is possibly joining the Winter Olympics.

781

:

Is that going to be a reality?

782

:

More and more.

783

:

That's what I hear.

784

:

Also,

during Olympics in Paris, a month ago.

785

:

I hope it's

786

:

going to happen, because then our sport

is coming to another level

787

:

because all those federations

are going to invest again in cyclocross.

788

:

And, you know,

young generation is going to dream

789

:

to have also a gold or silver

or a bronze medal.

790

:

So, yeah, if we can, if we can arrange

that and I think Lappartient,

791

:

the boss of UCI for the moment

is, is, is promoting it,

792

:

he wants to bring it to the Olympics

in France.

793

:

That's what I hear.

794

:

So then we talk about, 2030, I think,

795

:

if we can arrange that for then, yeah,

that that would be amazing.

796

:

So we are we coming from really far?

797

:

Because I was in the cyclocross

commission 50 years ago,

798

:

but then, women's cyclocross was almost

not existing.

799

:

Is this existing?

800

:

We are.

801

:

The prize money was not equal.

802

:

So a lot of things are changing.

803

:

We have now also the international, press

is coming to cyclocross.

804

:

Men and women are equal.

805

:

The prize money in World

Cups is the same for men as for women.

806

:

It's not the same in road cycling,

but it is in in cyclocross.

807

:

It's a huge step that we did.

808

:

So all those things helped a lot.

809

:

And the only thing

that was always a struggle

810

:

is that it needs to be on snow or ice,

811

:

and we can race on snow and ice,

but it's not always like that.

812

:

And that was the struggle we had also

with the whimper, Winter Olympics.

813

:

But if there is snow and ice, no problem.

814

:

We can raise on snow and ice because

we did already a few times in, Valley.

815

:

So like, for example, at the World Cup,

so they saw that it's possible,

816

:

if you ever go to a

817

:

big race like that, Olympics, World

Cup, world Championships, how does for you

818

:

or the riders today, how does the morning

before the race look like?

819

:

And the last hour?

820

:

Because for our viewers and listeners,

821

:

cyclocross general racing is one hour

plus one lap, right?

822

:

So more or less

it's about one hour and a few minutes.

823

:

So you need to be sharp

and ready at the start.

824

:

You can I missed the start because

you only have 60 minutes of racing right.

825

:

So you got to be as warmed up as possible.

826

:

How do you manage that?

827

:

Like how was the last hour or

the last two hours before race look like?

828

:

So, when you normally all the riders,

they start

829

:

coming out of their own home,

if when it's racing in Belgium,

830

:

okay, when it's not done it,

then it's coming out of the hotel

831

:

traveling through the race.

832

:

They do some, warm ups on the rollers.

833

:

Half an hour, just spinning the legs.

834

:

After breakfast,

to have a little bit of warm up.

835

:

Doing some stretching.

836

:

And then three hours before the race,

they have their last, meal.

837

:

Spaghetti or iced

838

:

or what they, what they really quick

can recover from because in the race,

839

:

the stomach needs to be empty

and the legs needs to be full.

840

:

That's also in a time trial like this.

841

:

And then they, go to the course

and do three laps,

842

:

the record of all the laps to see,

843

:

how are the circumstances,

with which, wheels do I need to ride?

844

:

What is the pressure of my tires?

845

:

Then they communicate with the mechanics.

846

:

The bikes, are prepared.

847

:

Go to the to the tracks again, recover

a little bit, drink,

848

:

and then try to be a little bit more

relaxed

849

:

and then, let me say do the, time

850

:

trial warmup 40 minutes before the race.

851

:

Some of them do it on the,

on the rollers, some of them on the roads.

852

:

Just do some really hard

intensity accelerations

853

:

that you're not having that one

first acceleration

854

:

in the first lap of the race

because otherwise you are done.

855

:

It needs to be before the race.

856

:

And at the first,

857

:

minute of the race, you need to be

you need to be on directly.

858

:

You need to feel, okay.

859

:

I'm ready. I'm there.

860

:

I can handle, one hour high intensity

on a really high heart rate.

861

:

And doing all the things that I trained

for, during the week.

862

:

After the race, it's recovery.

863

:

Spinning on the rollers again,

864

:

having food recovery shakes

and so on, going through the massage.

865

:

And then most of the times

they race on Sunday again,

866

:

and then everything, comes again

on the same night.

867

:

So in the end of the day, they,

they write that we say three, 3.5 hours.

868

:

Their bikes,

and they do one hour of competition.

869

:

A quick follow up question

you mentioned before, I

870

:

an average of hundred and 80, 285

heart rate, right.

871

:

Yeah.

872

:

So and also for our viewers,

the listeners to to bet on a stent,

873

:

it might go up to 190, but you never

recover down to 120, 130 heart rate.

874

:

Right.

875

:

Like we've been on a long descent.

876

:

Our heart rate ten minutes descent.

877

:

It goes down to two at 100.

878

:

You never have that really right.

879

:

It's like it's more or less obvious.

880

:

Full guess, like a time trial.

881

:

Isn't it true?

882

:

The longest descent you have is 15 20s.

883

:

So you have the feeling in a cyclocross

race, sometimes that you recover,

884

:

in the legs that, that

885

:

that you have a little bit more, yeah.

886

:

Acceleration.

887

:

Again,

but the heart rate is not going down.

888

:

So let me say in a, in a good race

889

:

when you are fresh,

the heart rate is average 180.

890

:

The lowest is 175

and the highest is one:

891

:

That's, that's that's that's a normal day.

892

:

Wow. So

893

:

you know not to mention it again NC

but during

894

:

my national championship days

back in:

895

:

we would go to Denver, Colorado,

which was probably a three hour drive.

896

:

There was this little reservoir

called Chatfield Reservoir,

897

:

and we would race Saturday and Sunday

and I would be so buckled.

898

:

You know, the from carrying

the bike on my, on my shoulder

899

:

to crashing to nicks and scratches

hitting trees and whatnot,

900

:

I would basically have to go

to high school, with all these sorts

901

:

of limps and cuts and bruises,

and it only got better.

902

:

Basically, on Friday when I was traveling

to the next weekend of racing,

903

:

you know,

so I just, I just I'm blown away.

904

:

I mean, recovery techniques, nutrition,

905

:

has has come a long, long way

906

:

since, since I was racing

and especially now.

907

:

But, Sven, we get this question a lot.

908

:

Do you did

you have your nutrition dialed in?

909

:

I mean, you just gave us that protocol,

which is very, very good, making

910

:

sure that your legs, your stomach is empty

and your legs are full.

911

:

But do you think you could have

benefited from some of the

912

:

technical, technical

913

:

advances in nutrition that the riders

have at their disposal today?

914

:

Oh, yeah, it's it's another level.

915

:

If you see the way how they, now

916

:

talk about food, about recovery, about,

917

:

hydrate,

918

:

in, in, in circumstances

like the tour of Spain for the moment,

919

:

I always suffered when it was warm,

but I,

920

:

I did the Olympics in Beijing

on the mountain bike,

921

:

and I lost my, my,

922

:

my, my my good result in the last,

923

:

race in the last lap

because of, dehydration.

924

:

If you see what they do right now

and the way how they do the

925

:

the heat protocol and then, they,

they the first thing they do

926

:

when they come out of that is, hey,

how many hours do I sleep?

927

:

And the deep sleep and,

when I eat at two, at:

928

:

Oh, I see it in my sleep.

929

:

And everything is now, in a schedule

930

:

going through the coach,

and they communicate with each other.

931

:

It's crazy.

932

:

So if I had all that knowledge

when I was a rider.

933

:

Yeah.

934

:

that I could do another level.

935

:

But that's for every rider.

936

:

That's also for you guys.

937

:

Yeah.

938

:

It's it's

we did it with the things we had the.

939

:

Yeah.

940

:

Except you have you have you had. Yeah.

941

:

It's when is it sometimes a problem when

942

:

road cycling superstars

Wout van Aert, Mathieu van der

943

:

Poel or Pidcock come to a cross races

and get some appearance fee.

944

:

Is there like a conflict

with the classics

945

:

cross riders because they could go

hey listen they already

946

:

earning millions

million dollar contracts on the road.

947

:

They don't need that start money.

948

:

But me I only have 40 races to make money

for my living, for my family.

949

:

It's just sometimes like a conflict

or jealousy between

950

:

the classic cyclo cross riders

and two superstars

951

:

just coming in with a private jet,

going for a win and going out again.

952

:

No, riders are always,

953

:

understand

that you have the heroes that you have.

954

:

The guys will bring also, the press

will bring also the fans to to an event.

955

:

And that's normal that they get higher.

956

:

Starting fee than, than another rider.

957

:

They understand that

if they're going to pay those riders

958

:

and completely not going to pay

all the other riders, then it's a problem.

959

:

But if you do it on on the right level,

then it's no problem.

960

:

And they understand really well that

when both are mature or coming to a race,

961

:

that there is also much more interesting

for for the riders themself.

962

:

So it helps also to promote cyclocross.

963

:

When they are there,

don't they have respect for them.

964

:

And the respect is also there from what

you have out to all the other riders.

965

:

No, that is completely no frustration.

966

:

Sven, listen, thank you so much

for coming on the odd tandem today.

967

:

We wish you and your team, all the best

968

:

in the upcoming cyclocross season,

which is right around the corner.

969

:

Thank you.

970

:

And, yeah,

good luck with your your young son.

971

:

And, you know, biting

the nails isn't very good.

972

:

So, you know, maybe you have, like,

a little, pillow there or a little towel

973

:

that you on when your son is doing

those field sprints.

974

:

So thank you again for your time

for coming on the odd tandem today.

975

:

Thank you very much.

976

:

And definitely you need to come

to a Belgium cyclocross race called me.

977

:

And I'm going to help you to, to enjoy

the event because yes, knows what it is.

978

:

It's it's it's amazing

979

:

what it is.

980

:

It's a festival. Festival of cycling.

981

:

Yeah.

982

:

That yeah, we should do that

and then do a podcast from there.

983

:

Oh, yeah. Have a left.

A blond at the left.

984

:

Come on in.

985

:

Chat at the microphone in the middle.

986

:

Haven't spent as long as my French fries

have ketchup and not mayonnaise.

987

:

I can make that work.

988

:

Well, that's everything for this week.

989

:

Now remember to follow us

@Odd Tandem on TikTok,

990

:

Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and wherever

you get your favorite podcasts.

991

:

Thanks to Sven for joining the podcast.

992

:

Also remember,

if you want to see the video version

993

:

of this podcast,

it's up on our YouTube channel right now.

994

:

Youtube.com/@oddtandem.

995

:

And if you want the full,

uninterrupted version of this podcast

996

:

and your name in the titles,

just head to our Patreon

997

:

where you can sign up for as little as $5

a month and keep this podcast going.

998

:

That's Patreon!

999

:

Thanks. Com slash odd tandem.

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00:55:09,431 --> 00:55:12,225

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00:55:12,225 --> 00:55:15,979

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00:55:21,443 --> 00:55:26,698

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00:55:26,823 --> 00:55:30,660

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About the Podcast

The Odd Tandem Cycling Podcast with Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt on all things cycling
Bobby Julich and Jens Voigt are back with a brand new cycling podcast. Speaking to the biggest names in the professional peloton and sharing their wisdom from their own careers.